PDA

View Full Version : UTXMP is a BETA.


T-Shinzon
11th Dec 2004, 12:46 AM
UTXMP is a beta, and it has the unbalances commonly found in a beta.
Now here are my (and some of my aquaintences') opinions, but we are all very experienced (as in we were there for the original U2 XMP beta and are now pretty much experts) and our opinions should hold weight. Feel free to ignore them, but doing so would probably be a bad idea. Don't feel obligated to accomodate every single one (some are subjective).

Ok, prepare for a long one. Here goes...

_+=First of all, weapon balance is "off."=+_

The tech is too weak: his incendiary fire is too weak, his assault rifle secondary doesn't have good aim (which is a necessity with that wep), etc.

The ranger's pistol is no longer semi-automatic, and it is very weak as well because of that. The ranger's sniper rifle doesn't "feel" very good, I can't even tell that it fired at all. The ranger's smoke grenade doesn't hide much at all.

The gunner is currently the best class. His rockets are powerful. His conc grenades move WAY too FAST and I can get tons of frags with those. His flamethrower emitter tends to stay floating in midair randomly. Conc grenades do not tip over vehicles any more.

The jugg minigun is not a good change. You can't hit anything with it, and it isnt very cool. It just doesn't look very good. Bring back the flamethrower, please.

Being able to switch between gunner/driver positions without leaving the vehicle turns the juggernaut into a super-one-man-monster-kill-machine. It really unbalances the vehicles. I now (in UTXMP) prefer the jugg to any other when I want to kill someone from a vehicle. I can dodge grenades in it since I switch seats.

The turrets are kinda unbalanced in that they are very hard to kill with certain weapons that worked well before (i.e. incendiary grenades).

If you place an auto-turret and then pick it up, you can't place it again.

Sometimes you get stuck constantly switching between 2 weapons.

_=+Second, many of the emitters are "off" and not visually impressive enough, and also sounds have some problems.+=_

The deploy spawn emitters, as you probably already know, aren't even close to being properly aligned timewise. Also the spinning lightning stuff (squiggly) sucks. Replace it with beams or something. And add those expanding elliptical ovals like in U2XMP so that they are actually noticeable.

The bullet trail emitters stay active far too long. Also, you can't see your own. (sniper rifle)

The incendiary grenade emitter is not as cool as before and CPU-heavy. The U2 one was much better and more realistic and cooler.

The shotgun primary hit effects feel wimpy (shotgun bullets should appear to penetrate the level, like in U2, and have a more satisfying sound).

Gas grenades look wrong, and same when they are attached to a player. Too heavy on the players, and not thick enough on the ground. I advise you to increase the size of the sprites. Also, gas should have more "reach."

EMP grenades look weird, but thats not too much of a problem.

The Raptor minigun needs to be spread out to look like the original.

The Juggernaut main turret's explosion looks plain wrong. It sounds "off" as well. The explosion sends vehicles flying, too (which is realistic, but I sent a Harbinger across the map and couldn't kill it 'cause it "got away" purely on the Jugg shots).

The Harbinger shock turret shoots way too slow.

Game is definitely not loud enough (vocal messages are tons louder than effects sounds)

Forcewall lasers tend to stay after the generators have been blown up, and they also sometimes go to random locations. Looks bad.

When running over deployables, they don't explode but simple disappear.

The boost on the Raptor isn't really like a "boost" more of an exhaust and not right. Faster flames would help both performance and looks.

_=+Physics are not good.+=_

Everything feels "slo-mo" or low-grav, and very sluggish.

You can't jump as high.

You can't mantle.

The gunner is too nimble. I can run circles around rangers (ok thats a bit of an exaggeration.)

Every time you land there is a "bob" in the screen, prevents dodging back and forth fast. This can be disabled, but it shouldn't be an option at all.

Every time I try to dodge-boost-land-dodge-boost-etc., I accidentally boost (due to the coding) instead on the second dodge and it screws me up.

I can't due bunny-hopping dodge stuff as often anymore.

The Raptor spins out on certain hills.

_=+Models! (and other visuals)+=_

Players seem too small.

Crosshairs need some work.

The Raptor is too low to the ground, looks like a wide rubber-wheel skateboard. That's kinda personal, but the Raptor now seems less of a vehicle and more like those "suicide raptors."

The HUD looks like it was designed for children. WAAAY too blocky/bulky. Some elements should be moved around, and it's plain confusing when shields and health go opposite ways. The old HUD was much more useful.

You have to bring back the name tags above teammates. Team-killing is incredibly prevalent due to the absence of the aforementioned tags.

Summary: UTXMP is not perfect YET. That's what a BETA is.

Ok done for now. The reason for this is because I want UTXMP to be just as good as U2XMP, not just halfway to the summit of Everest.

I also learned that if you try to discuss this on a server, you get kicked. ;)

But Good Job, FMI, for getting half-way there! Release some patches soon!

:)

Majai
11th Dec 2004, 12:58 AM
When you constantly whine about it on a server for over 4 maps you get kicked. Its not like you were not warned quite a few times. People get annoyed after 4 maps of the same BS, unless you did not see everyone telling you to quit it. Very good comments though.

They belong on the forums not on a server where people want to play.

T-Shinzon
11th Dec 2004, 01:04 AM
When you constantly whine about it on a server for over 4 maps you get kicked. Its not like you were not warned quite a few times. People get annoyed after 4 maps of the same BS, unless you did not see everyone telling you to quit it. Very good comments though.

They belong on the forums not on a server where people want to play.

I wasn't whining, I made clear my intent for getting players to tell me about things they don't like, but I may have gone out of hand. Yeah, I realize that the comments belonged here and not there, but I was kinda fumed :mad: at the time over the initial dissapointment of an imperfect product. Of course, that implies that I wanted perfection first go, which is way too much to ask of FMI. :lol: (please don't take that as an insult, FMI :D )

FurociousFa
11th Dec 2004, 01:11 AM
Majai, neither is whining at someone for whining in "the wrong place" ..hypocrite.

Majai
11th Dec 2004, 01:58 AM
Majai, neither is whining at someone for whining in "the wrong place" ..hypocrite.

Yawn...

[DF]phalanx
11th Dec 2004, 09:48 AM
ok speech time
now FMI released this because everyone complained because of closed beta, and all everyone does when they get it is complain about the weapon balance and movement and other little things that can be added in the next version with no problems. you wanted the game FMI have worked hard these past few days getting it into a playable state would you rather have a crappy lgame with worse lag then XMP or something not quite right and playable. IMO we should be happy we got what we have now rather then complaining becasue its not like XMP, getting balance exactly correct is proebly the hardest part of the conversion so please rather then complain about that concentrate on map bugs, weapon bugs and other problems that FMI probebly wouldn't know about rather then weapon balance, player sizes, scaling FMI will probebly be working on this as i speak so can we please concentrate on the annoying lesser bugs.

headwire
11th Dec 2004, 09:59 AM
A lot of this could be in bug reporting section, which is where I'm sure they'll look for improvements. :)

T-Shinzon
11th Dec 2004, 08:15 PM
Phalanx, the reason people are complaining is to make UTXMP better for future releases. As you may have noticed, there already is a "Thank You FMI" thread. If no one complained, then UTXMP would not get better. Personally, I want UTXMP to be better. Don't you? ;)

::EDIT::

Okay I added a link to this thread in the bug reports section, as per your suggestion headwire. :)

Sir_Brizz
11th Dec 2004, 08:25 PM
Complaining doesn't help

Constructive criticism does.

too many of these threads are complaining and not enough helping.

|pure|Destruction
11th Dec 2004, 08:37 PM
I have kinda came to terms overnight with accepting how the mod has thus far turned out. I understand that its not easy to complete to perfection. Though it was very pissy when waiting for it for so long and it kinda wasnt what I expected. So, I guess playing with people who know how to play is the best way to experience utxmp with less frustrations due to no one reviving you, people teamkilling, not knowing what to do, etc... But If im going to play it for a month or two before a patch is released, my only issue is the crosshairs, especially the one on the sniper rifle with low detail. Maps are almost perfect though.

Zur
11th Dec 2004, 09:20 PM
Just a few words I want to add here. You don't encourage people to fix things when you simply complain. If anything this has the opposite effect, especially when the thing to improve is a creative process. What one should do in this case is engage in what is called constructive critisism which is devoid of any negative undertones.

I'm not necessarily posting this in response to T-Shinzon as he his post is partially constructive but it might be food for thought for anyone reading this thread.

Smood
11th Dec 2004, 09:54 PM
The bullet trail emitters stay active far too long. Also, you can't see your own. (sniper rifle)


You could not see you your own trail emitters in ORIGINAL xmp either. This is ok, the only thing they should add is a small movement (shake) of the scope when you fire.

FireCrack
12th Dec 2004, 03:12 AM
Personaly i like all of the new emmiters (especialy incendiary nades)

except

The emp in UTxmp looked nice because it had those glowing blue bouncy things, that were awesom.

and

Not too fond of the spawn emmiter 100%, suggest an addition of a wide slow moving beam that comes down from the spinny part while spinning.


Ofcourse focus should be on bugs and balance first.

Kazuma
12th Dec 2004, 12:16 PM
Hi, just registered to say that I agree with most of the points the thread starter has put down, especially in weapon balance

Some balance issues (all this in comparison with the original XMP)

- Gunner's flamethrower is too weak. In original XMP the flamethrower was king in close range esp corridors but presently it takes around 2 secs more to kill anything. The Gunner's main balancing factor was in its less nimble movement.

- The Tech's assault rifle cone of fire is way too big. Almost all techs use the shotgun only now.

- Gas grenades should blow up in a cloud instantly. Presently, it's too slow acting to work properly.

- Smoke grenades should be completely opaque and, as above, must blow up instantly. The classic smoke and grab artifact technique for rangers is completely useless now.

- One of my favourite techniques with a Raptor was doing 180s by hitting the 'NOS' and braking with a turn. Not anymore :( . (Low priority, sorry if its possible now with right click - I'm not an ons person so the thought only just crossed my mind)

- Raptor's minigun is way too weak. I hardly run for cover now.

- The Raptor's gunner seat view has too much interference.

- One of the class balancing I liked most about XMP, whether intended or not, was that there was kind of a rock, scissor, paper balance. In my personal experience in melee combat, I tend to kill more Gunners with Rangers, more Techs with Gunners and more Rangers with Techs. Eg as strong as the Gunner is 2 shots is all a Ranger need to down one, but its harder to pull it off a tech who can close in more rapidly with the shotgun. But note that it's only a very slight advantage. Presently the equation is leaning towards the Gunner.

Hope this is constructive enough.

HwK
12th Dec 2004, 03:03 PM
It could be my keyboard.... but my dodging/movement sucks now....

crosshairs need work
nades need work

sometimes you cant get rid of class selection....so you cant switch positions in vehicles

<-- got over 100 gutblows already...lol

btw.... does the stats tracker work for this yet?

:( I miss u2XMP

Sir_Brizz
12th Dec 2004, 03:22 PM
- Gunner's flamethrower is too weak. In original XMP the flamethrower was king in close range esp corridors but presently it takes around 2 secs more to kill anything. The Gunner's main balancing factor was in its less nimble movement.
I don't agree. Additionally, I don't think that the flamethrower was vey balanced in U2XMP, because it should be a FINISHING weapon, not a knick everything barely and kill it all weapon.
- The Tech's assault rifle cone of fire is way too big. Almost all techs use the shotgun only now.
Agreed. The AR is worthless (although I ALWAYS used shotgun instead of AR even in u2xmp).
- Gas grenades should blow up in a cloud instantly. Presently, it's too slow acting to work properly.
The cloud should be big instantly, if that's what you mean. Right now it's too small and grows too slow.
- Smoke grenades should be completely opaque and, as above, must blow up instantly. The classic smoke and grab artifact technique for rangers is completely useless now.
The current smoke grenades are better for balance, IMO.
- One of my favourite techniques with a Raptor was doing 180s by hitting the 'NOS' and braking with a turn. Not anymore :( . (Low priority, sorry if its possible now with right click - I'm not an ons person so the thought only just crossed my mind)
Since it uses the built in vehicle code, pressing jump and a direction will pull a 180.
- Raptor's minigun is way too weak. I hardly run for cover now.
Always was, IMO.
- The Raptor's gunner seat view has too much interference.
Disagree.
- One of the class balancing I liked most about XMP, whether intended or not, was that there was kind of a rock, scissor, paper balance. In my personal experience in melee combat, I tend to kill more Gunners with Rangers, more Techs with Gunners and more Rangers with Techs. Eg as strong as the Gunner is 2 shots is all a Ranger need to down one, but its harder to pull it off a tech who can close in more rapidly with the shotgun. But note that it's only a very slight advantage. Presently the equation is leaning towards the Gunner.
The Rock Paper Scissors was never in terms of how many shots someone took. It was in the ABILITIES of the classes. This is still there, although the weapons need SLIGHT tweaking.

Kazuma
12th Dec 2004, 06:45 PM
I don't agree. Additionally, I don't think that the flamethrower was vey balanced in U2XMP, because it should be a FINISHING weapon, not a knick everything barely and kill it all weapon.

It was never a kill-all weapon, and neither did I mean it that way. It killed roughly 1-2 secs faster than now. U could still get a couple of buckshots in and win a melee. Presently it's senseless to switch to the flame even for a finisher when the rocket is a way better to start and end with.


Agreed. The AR is worthless (although I ALWAYS used shotgun instead of AR even in u2xmp).

It wasn't really useless, it was the tech's form of medium to longer range attack.. useful vs gunners


The current smoke grenades are better for balance, IMO.


If it stays this way, the only time u'll see smoke is when n00bs test the weapon out.


Since it uses the built in vehicle code, pressing jump and a direction will pull a 180.

Thanks for the clarification


The Rock Paper Scissors was never in terms of how many shots someone took. It was in the ABILITIES of the classes. This is still there, although the weapons need SLIGHT tweaking.

we're familiar with their class specific abilities by now.. I was talking only melee here, and melee abilities are more than the number of shots to kill. Alot of it to do with weapon balance, movement, and lesser extent the size (psychological, which is fine since its the same models) etc.

FireCrack
12th Dec 2004, 07:23 PM
Yeah, AR needs more acuracy and the tracers from it should be gone or lightened substantialy. It looks like some weird bug when the tech is firing right now. Also i think the alt shot should be sped up.

Right now even in long range situations the shottie is the weapon of choice, mabye it needs a tad more spread on primary, i'm not sure however.

Sir_Brizz
12th Dec 2004, 07:35 PM
It was never a kill-all weapon, and neither did I mean it that way. It killed roughly 1-2 secs faster than now. U could still get a couple of buckshots in and win a melee. Presently it's senseless to switch to the flame even for a finisher when the rocket is a way better to start and end with.
Are you kidding? In U2XMP the Flamethrower was spray-and-pray...and 9 times out of ten it was spray-pray-kill-spray-pray-kill-die.
It wasn't really useless, it was the tech's form of medium to longer range attack.. useful vs gunners
I meant the current one not the original one. The old one had it's uses but in the beta toomany complained about it's accuracy, vis a vis, it's weaker.
If it stays this way, the only time u'll see smoke is when n00bs test the weapon out.
Then what's the usefulness of a smoke grenade in a game like CS???
we're familiar with their class specific abilities by now.. I was talking only melee here, and melee abilities are more than the number of shots to kill. Alot of it to do with weapon balance, movement, and lesser extent the size (psychological, which is fine since its the same models) etc.
I don't really notice a difference...like so many complain about.

[DF]phalanx
12th Dec 2004, 08:07 PM
ok
a few things
i'm glad gas nades are **** they are annoying bit of crap anyway all they did was lag and cause cheap lame spam kills
the vehicle guns radius seems to have gone ****e.
the flamethower is now **** alt fire doesn't do anything apart from lay green bushes which do nothing anyway
the effects on vehicle guns is bad for eyes as you have to squint to make out a target
assault rifle tracers just get annoying and arn't needed and alt fire needs its accuracy back (as does primary) it used to pwn in XMP now it sux
hard to plant a shot at anyones feet due to the fact they seem to stay in the air longer and have enough personal energy to keep going

if the pistol was set back to how it was it would give ranger advantage at melee as the flamethrower is ****, shotgun is slow and rangers hop about too much to be hit by it
in the origional XMP i used assault rifle to take out close range rangers due to its accuracy, now that its all over the place its hard to do so
i do like the new gunner gnade tho i couldn't use the other one, this one i have knocked up a few decent frags already
IMO gunner should be left (apart from flamethrower) as its fine
tech needs the assault rifle back to how it was
ranger needs better crosshair make the pistol as good as it was in XMP damage and fire rate wise but keep accuracy down to what alt AR is now or maybe a little better

T-Shinzon
12th Dec 2004, 11:31 PM
You could not see you your own trail emitters in ORIGINAL xmp either. This is ok, the only thing they should add is a small movement (shake) of the scope when you fire.

Well I put (sniper rifle) in parenthesis 'cause I could see the bullet trail for that.

Anyway, UTXMP needs more "forces."

What I mean is, in U2XMP for instance the rockets had explosions that could be felt much more than UTXMP in its current state. Another example would be the sniper rifle. Now there is no viewshake nor adequate sound (I haven't verified the sound part yet, but thats the feeling I got) and sometimes I can't tell that I shot it at all.

Personally I think the Raptor should go back to its normal preportions since it looked much cooler and more powerful that way.

As for the gunner flamethrower, I only got killed by it in very closed corridors (like that spammy but sometimes fun map Duality) or when I was caught from behind hacking something. Most people that spray and pray against me get me to simply boost out of range and lob grenades at them or shell them with shotgun bullets. I never found the flamethrower too powerful. The flamethrower was designed for close quarters and that's where it should be better than rockets.

I never found the smoke grenades useful at all in CS, I used flash grenades instead, but I'm a n00b at that game so I wouldn't know.

But I liked the fast-exploding smoke grenades because they were much more useful that way. Smoke grenades are, in fact, the sort of thing that Rangers (or scouts) would have. Fast exploding ones work better, and I think the game would be more balanced with fast exploding smoke grenades.

In U2, didn't most weapons have practically infinite range? I remember that the sniper rifle could shoot at the very LEAST 65536 units (about 1 mile), and very probably more. I also remember that the AR secondary pellets could reach all the way across a map and destroy a Raptor on the other side. Now each weapon has a distance limit that is very annoying.

Also, I think that Raptors should recieve more damage upon collisions. As of now, Raptor collisions register barely a hit against its health.

Did I mention that Conc Grenades don't tip vehicles anymore?

/\║Kamakazi
13th Dec 2004, 05:25 AM
I think this is all quite easy to sum up....

goes a lil somtin like...

Make UTxmp like U2xmp - nuff said :)

I think most will agree that U2xmp was "almost" flawless in every aspect and needs only minor alterations - although UT2k4 engine is a different beast - my hopes is that FMI will be able to replicate it for us all so we can get back to hardcore gaming!

Kazuma
13th Dec 2004, 06:55 AM
I think this is all quite easy to sum up....

goes a lil somtin like...

Make UTxmp like U2xmp - nuff said :)

I think most will agree that U2xmp was "almost" flawless in every aspect and needs only minor alterations - although UT2k4 engine is a different beast - my hopes is that FMI will be able to replicate it for us all so we can get back to hardcore gaming!

Agree totally, which is why I thought this thread was very good and added some other thoughts on what was different.

Some peeps might say it's 2 different games, but I'd go for the tried and tested original method. It was balanced enough that all the weapons were effective in (keyword: many) situations.

If there was balance issues in U2XMP, it was in exploits such as conc grenade jumps, boost jumping, and more which I don't remember or discovered.

Sir_Brizz
13th Dec 2004, 09:07 AM
I think this is all quite easy to sum up....

goes a lil somtin like...

Make UTxmp like U2xmp - nuff said :)

I think most will agree that U2xmp was "almost" flawless in every aspect and needs only minor alterations - although UT2k4 engine is a different beast - my hopes is that FMI will be able to replicate it for us all so we can get back to hardcore gaming!
So let's make this new mod a buggy, unsupported, dead game right off the bat?

There are some very obvious gameplay issues that COULD be fixed, but unfortunately only 6% of the XMP community is FORWARD THINKING.

/\║Kamakazi
13th Dec 2004, 12:48 PM
??sir_brizz, I was not refering to the unsupported part obviously (wasn't it?) and the fact that the game is now dead. I used the word "almost flawless" and "needs minor alterations" because U2xmp had some bugs and issues - but not very many.

Many have come to love U2xmp - it's physics and smooth player movement is what makes it great - UTxmp will have many new and exciting effects and options but it would be perfect if the core of it was identical to U2xmp - but I love the new harby though - fast and stable....

Sir_Brizz
13th Dec 2004, 01:15 PM
So you expect that the whole 100-200 people that played the original is plenty for UTXMP as well? because the numbers dropped long before Legend went out of business and the master server went down.

Anyways you've already proved yourself wrong by liking the new harby. It's not identical to the U2XMP harby.

/\║Kamakazi
13th Dec 2004, 01:55 PM
heh, the fact that FMI is making UTxmp and is working hard to bring the ole U2xmp "feel" back proves my point enough. I have full confidence they will succeed too! Sir_Brizz you just don't get it - almost every aspect of U2xmp is being copied for the UT version - yes I like the harby in the new one but as I have said so very recent - U2xmp had minor issues that needed fixing and the harby was one of them!

Sir_Brizz
13th Dec 2004, 03:11 PM
heh, the fact that FMI is making UTxmp and is working hard to bring the ole U2xmp "feel" back proves my point enough. I have full confidence they will succeed too! Sir_Brizz you just don't get it - almost every aspect of U2xmp is being copied for the UT version - yes I like the harby in the new one but as I have said so very recent - U2xmp had minor issues that needed fixing and the harby was one of them!
Umm...that's exactly what I was saying. You said you wanted it to be identical and now you are saying therre are a few things that could be fixed. I agree with that, but you'll find most people on these forums don't.

shoptroll
13th Dec 2004, 05:01 PM
Umm...that's exactly what I was saying. You said you wanted it to be identical and now you are saying therre are a few things that could be fixed. I agree with that, but you'll find most people on these forums don't.

I know I'd be happy seeing as close a conversion as they can possibly get. Granted things on a whole seem to run a lot smoother than U2XMP did, I won't mind seeing a few differences/tweaks/improvements here and there. I mostly play tech, and I'm kindof the mind that gas grenades probably use a downgrade in power from U2XMP. (I think the way the discussions were going at the time that it probably would've been looked into by Legend were they still around today).

Not to hijack the thread, but I do remember that gas seemed to hit a bit outside of the actual cloud... I wonder if they decreased that effect or if they tweaked the damage / hit rate or amount of damage per hit to make it so that walking into gas wasn't a complete suicide wish. Although I do believe that if you get hit with the stuff dead on you shouldn't be able to just "shrug" it off and continue on your merry way.

Anyways, stuff like that I won't mind. I would really like to see more look n' feel elements implemented (the hud does the job, but it feels too large... too UT2003 almost), like maybe get us the old animated reticles that U2 had (which freaking rocked btw), and just more stuff like that.

There's definately one thing I've noticed about the Unreal community in general: change is good, in small doses. I think overall UTXMP has gotten a pretty good reaction, most of the complaints are akin to when UT2003 was released, but keep in mind this is a BETA not a game on a CD.

Sir_Brizz
13th Dec 2004, 05:44 PM
I think the gas and smoke come out of the nade slowly like they would IRL, not explode into a huge poof cloud.

The smoke probably should grow a little faster, but the gas...meh.

T-Shinzon
13th Dec 2004, 06:34 PM
I like how the harby no longer does triple barrel rolls on a tiny bump in the ground. But weapon-wise, I would like it to be identical to the U2 harby.

Also, being too specific / technical doesn't help anyone.

IceBoy, it wasn't hijacking the thread because thats what the thread was originally about: improving UTXMP! :)

Realistically, the gas / smoke 'nades should come out slowly, right? But in XMP, it worked quite well that they expanded quickly. In RL I've never seen a smoke cloud expand that fast and then just stop, but in XMP it worked very well gameplay-wise. You could toss a few grenades and know that they would do their job quickly rather than having to time the rate of expansion.

The ranger's smoke 'nade was perfect for arty grabs, and slowing it down will only alert players more immediately to the ranger's actions (assuming the ranger actually waits for the smoke to get reasonably thick).

The tech's gas would have to be deployed much further ahead of a player to catch them with it since it ejects slowly. That would me much harder because the further away it is, the less chance that a player you are targeting will actually run into it. The fact that it expanded fast made it good for spraying to attain a sense of general confusion and to prevent people from following you without taking damage.

I recall someone once telling me that conc grenades once dissipated gas/smoke, and I think that's a good idea. There may be issues with balance, so please enlighten me to those if you have any.

shoptroll
13th Dec 2004, 08:20 PM
Conc grenades dissipating smoke/gas makes sensse since the particle system allowed particles to be affected by environmental changes in U2.

I think the gas question is going to be one of the more scrutinized features of this mod down the road. I think right now, there's more issue with the ranger's magnum than gas.

In terms of expansion rate, a fast poof rate for the gas and smoke makes sense. Especially smoke. You're 100% right when you say that a delay on its deployment will alert enemies to a rangers existance. Also, the longer the smoke takes to build up, the more time the enemy has to see the ranger in an escape manuver and in cases where the ranger is trying to sneak in ninja style it only serves as an early warning.

I really think gas should deploy fairly rapidly. True, this isn't real life. But since when does a game need to be realistic to make something work? If anything, I would recommend researching how Diablo II handled with balancing out poison effects, since I know Blizzard spent a while tweaking the poison system in that game. Ultimately, I think gas should be as lethal as it was before, but perhaps stretch out the damage or something a little longer (so that if you're running through its not like instant death). There must be a sweet spot that can be found by tweaking damage per hit and the number of hits that gas does during its existance.

Finally, I heard some request to drop the tracers on the Assault Rifle. If memory serves right, there were tracers on the AR in U2XMP, maybe have fewer tracers on the weapon? I haven't really gotten a chance to see an enemy use the AR on me, so I don't know why people are having issues with tracer rounds.

I like how the harby no longer does triple barrel rolls on a tiny bump in the ground. But weapon-wise, I would like it to be identical to the U2 harby.

Also, being too specific / technical doesn't help anyone.

IceBoy, it wasn't hijacking the thread because thats what the thread was originally about: improving UTXMP! :)

Realistically, the gas / smoke 'nades should come out slowly, right? But in XMP, it worked quite well that they expanded quickly. In RL I've never seen a smoke cloud expand that fast and then just stop, but in XMP it worked very well gameplay-wise. You could toss a few grenades and know that they would do their job quickly rather than having to time the rate of expansion.

The ranger's smoke 'nade was perfect for arty grabs, and slowing it down will only alert players more immediately to the ranger's actions (assuming the ranger actually waits for the smoke to get reasonably thick).

The tech's gas would have to be deployed much further ahead of a player to catch them with it since it ejects slowly. That would me much harder because the further away it is, the less chance that a player you are targeting will actually run into it. The fact that it expanded fast made it good for spraying to attain a sense of general confusion and to prevent people from following you without taking damage.

I recall someone once telling me that conc grenades once dissipated gas/smoke, and I think that's a good idea. There may be issues with balance, so please enlighten me to those if you have any.

Sir_Brizz
13th Dec 2004, 11:11 PM
In terms of expansion rate, a fast poof rate for the gas and smoke makes sense. Especially smoke. You're 100% right when you say that a delay on its deployment will alert enemies to a rangers existance. Also, the longer the smoke takes to build up, the more time the enemy has to see the ranger in an escape manuver and in cases where the ranger is trying to sneak in ninja style it only serves as an early warning.

I really think gas should deploy fairly rapidly. True, this isn't real life. But since when does a game need to be realistic to make something work? If anything, I would recommend researching how Diablo II handled with balancing out poison effects, since I know Blizzard spent a while tweaking the poison system in that game. Ultimately, I think gas should be as lethal as it was before, but perhaps stretch out the damage or something a little longer (so that if you're running through its not like instant death). There must be a sweet spot that can be found by tweaking damage per hit and the number of hits that gas does during its existance.
I agree, but I don't really care. I think it's nice to see it spread more realistically, athough the smoke cloud should build at least twioce as fast as it does now. The gas...meh. I don't care. I like how it is now because it forces the tech to be more accurate with their grenades rather than just spam them all around the person they are attacking.
Finally, I heard some request to drop the tracers on the Assault Rifle. If memory serves right, there were tracers on the AR in U2XMP, maybe have fewer tracers on the weapon? I haven't really gotten a chance to see an enemy use the AR on me, so I don't know why people are having issues with tracer rounds.
What happens is every shot has a tracer so you just see a bunch of lines flying across the screen. They definitely need to be reduced to like 1 of 3 or more.

shoptroll
13th Dec 2004, 11:50 PM
I agree, but I don't really care. I think it's nice to see it spread more realistically, athough the smoke cloud should build at least twioce as fast as it does now. The gas...meh. I don't care. I like how it is now because it forces the tech to be more accurate with their grenades rather than just spam them all around the person they are attacking.

What happens is every shot has a tracer so you just see a bunch of lines flying across the screen. They definitely need to be reduced to like 1 of 3 or more.

I think the U2XMP had tracers every now and then. If every bullet has a tracer that's a problem.

As for gas. Like I said, making it less spammy would be a good thing, as long as the overall power isn't crippled. I think the gas is meant to be an anti-gunner weapon (slow movement means can't get away from gas easily). That's my theory.

FireCrack
14th Dec 2004, 12:05 AM
Personaly i think gas is a temporary area denial weapon, for blocking off doors, your artifact node, etc.

MetalMarine
14th Dec 2004, 06:00 PM
I wasn't whining, I made clear my intent for getting players to tell me about things they don't like, but I may have gone out of hand. Yeah, I realize that the comments belonged here and not there, but I was kinda fumed :mad: at the time over the initial dissapointment of an imperfect product. Of course, that implies that I wanted perfection first go, which is way too much to ask of FMI. :lol: (please don't take that as an insult, FMI :D )


why dong you donate a few grand to help them make it a more perfect game. its free bro and its sweet. u2xmp kicked arse and this will to. only a beta.

T-Shinzon
15th Dec 2004, 12:24 AM
why dong you donate a few grand to help them make it a more perfect game. its free bro and its sweet. u2xmp kicked arse and this will to. only a beta.

I believe that post was something of an apology, or at least public realization of a mistake. And gee, the thread title is "UTXMP is a BETA." :rolleyes:

MetalMarine
15th Dec 2004, 10:53 AM
I believe that post was something of an apology, or at least public realization of a mistake. And gee, the thread title is "UTXMP is a BETA." :rolleyes:


lol. i laugh at noobs that whine about free stuff. :)

T-Shinzon
15th Dec 2004, 05:53 PM
You can call me a n00b, I don't care. Whatever. :rolleyes: (btw your smiley threw me off :) )

But now on-topic,

Anyone notice how the gunner rockets send vehicles (especially the Harby) flying? I "juggled" a harby around with my relatively small rockets and found it kinda weird. Also, the conc grenades don't do crap to vehicles in knocking them over.

I still don't like how you can switch seats with the number keys without exiting the vehicle. It severely increases the power of the Juggernaut ESPECIALLY. Now one person in a jugg is almost as potent as two was in U2XMP. That really unbalances stuff.