[PSA] How Not to Forge a Military Document

W0RF · Sep 10, 2004

Step 1: Don't use an electronic word processor with size 13 Times Roman font.

Questions are being raised about the authenticity of newly discovered documents relating to George W. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War.

First reported by CBS's 60 Minutes, the memos allegedly were found in Killian's personal files. But his family members say they doubt he ever made such documents, let alone kept them.

Connell said Killian did not type, and though he did take notes, they were usually on scraps of paper. "He was a person who did not take copious notes," she said. "He carried everything in his mind."

Killian's son, Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father, also told ABC News Radio that he doubts his father wrote the documents. "It was not the nature of my father to keep private files like this, nor would it have been in his own interest to do so," he said.

"We don't know where the documents come from," he said, adding, "They didn't come from any family member."

More than half a dozen document experts contacted by ABC News said they had doubts about the memos' authenticity.

"These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:"

Among the points Flynn and other experts noted:

- The memos were written using a proportional typeface, where letters take up variable space according to their size, rather than fixed-pitch typeface used on typewriters, where each letter is allotted the same space. Proportional typefaces are available only on computers or on very high-end typewriters that were unlikely to be used by the National Guard.
- The memos include superscript, i.e. the "th" in "187th" appears above the line in a smaller font. Superscript was not available on typewriters.
- The memos included "curly" apostrophes rather than straight apostrophes found on typewriters.
- The font used in the memos is Times Roman, which was in use for printing but not in typewriters. The Haas Atlas — the bible of fonts — does not list Times Roman as an available font for typewriters.
- The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers.

... oops. Somebody's not going to have a job next week.

The wording of ABC's article isn't exactly clear on all of the points of contention. For example, the case is overstated for superscript on typewriters, as I think it WAS available for the right price, just not on the kind the military would use 30 years ago.

Just one more reason both sides may want to consider SingTFU about Viet Nam.

thewalkingman · Sep 10, 2004

"What's the Frequency, Kenneth"?

namu · Sep 10, 2004

Kinda helpful link.

W0RF · Sep 10, 2004

This paragraph alone makes it worth the long read:

Of course I know that your opinion on this matter is based entirely on which side of the Imaginary Line you stand. This is my point; to dismiss any rumored charge against Bush in the presence of certain opinionated people brings a response of, "that man's capable of anything!"

Anything? What if I told you he was capable of flying? That Bush can, in fact, fly around the Earth so fast that he can reverse time itself, so that he could go back and, say, stop left-wing civil rights leader Rudolph Gunderson from being born? What? You've never heard of Rudolph- OH NO! It has already happened! Go e-mail your friends!

ZenPirate · Sep 10, 2004

namu said:
Kinda helpful link.

You, sir, are my new hero.

SugarBear · Sep 10, 2004

proportional font type writers were introduced by IBM in the early 1940's, they were just not common for household use, it is not only possible but likely that a proportional type printer was in a public office.

The font is not Times, it appears very similar to the times font but it's actually a font called Space01 (corresponding to the width of the character spaces) from IBM.

The IBM type 4 Executive model (introduced in 1941) even had the ability to produce the little th superscript.

I'm not taking a side one way or the other on whether the documents are fake, I'm just stating the facts.

W0RF · Sep 10, 2004

There's a difference between impossible and improbable.

It's not impossible that a man who by his own family's recollection took only handwritten notes, if ever, would have typed this one personal note, which just happens to be critical of a man who just happened to be the President 30 years later, on a machine that back then would have cost thousands of dollars, and that the government would have happily provided for a Texas ANG unit, and just happened to be turned up by 60 Minutes, whose recent world-changing news stories include pimping books by Bill Clinton and Richard Clarke, which just happen to be published by their parent company Viacom.

It's not impossible, just highly improbable.

And there's still the matter of apostrophes and vertical spacing.

And the even larger concern, that the capacities of a 30-year-old typewriter have suddenly become a central issue in a Presidential campaign?!?!?

O.S.T · Sep 10, 2004

what's so important about bushs guard service?
isn't it more important what he does now, instead of reporting what unimportant things he did in the past?

W0RF · Sep 10, 2004

Agreed. Even if Kerry got his Purple Hearts on the cheap, AND Bush skated through his Guard service, AND Gore was a journalist who never saw combat, AND Cheney used deferments to stay home, AND Clinton fled the country to dodge the draft, none of it has any bearing on what people are doing now, today, in government. Same goes for even if Kerry pulled his entire unit out of a fire zone like Forrest Gump, it was 30 freaking years ago, and not at all related to politics and government.

W0RF · Sep 10, 2004

Slightly off-topic, but witness a real hero

An Ohio state senator will be leaving for the Persian Gulf next month as the leader of his Ohio Army National Guard unit...Stivers, a former Bank One lobbyist, joined the Army National Guard 19 years ago. He was eligible for a lawmaker's deferment but said he never considered not going.

Maybe Michael Moore should have interviewed this guy instead of asking congressmen in Washington with no children, why they weren't sending their children to Iraq.

Aegeri · Sep 10, 2004

Maybe Michael Moore should have interviewed this guy instead of asking congressmen in Washington with no children, why they weren't sending their children to Iraq.

I heard Michael Moore is fat.

W0RF · Sep 10, 2004

Factual, but irrelevant.

Aegeri · Sep 10, 2004

\/\/0RF said:
Factual, but irrelevant.

BUT HE IS SO HUGE!!! IT'S LIKE A GIANT LIBERAL HIPPOPOTAMUS!!!!

SEE, THE PHOTOGRAPHIC PICTURE PROOF!!

tool · Sep 10, 2004

I don't understand why all of this matters. It is silly that it is even a issue what George Bush and John Kerry did during Vietnam. There is no reason why either canidates should be brining this stuff into the election, and there is no excuse for the media to be adding to the fire. :tdown:

Fluid · Sep 10, 2004

\/\/0RF said:
Factual, but irrelevant.

You got a really good Borg impression down there. You should try to get a role in the next Star Trek series.

:tup:

W0RF · Sep 10, 2004

If it helps, Spock was my hero growing up

SugarBear · Sep 10, 2004

actually it's incredibly relevent, you're electing someone who potentially lied about something very serious, to very serious people, so that instead of defending a country he could party with hookers and do lines of coke.

It's a clear indication of his character, clearer than the facade he puts on everytime he's in front of a camera, a person's past, regardless of what many believe is a very clear picture of their present and future.

Think of it like this; what if someone came to you to interview for a job, they gave you their very very impressive resume, and while you are interviewing them your seceratary comes in and tells you that his last employer fired him because he found out everything on his resume at the time was made up and he had absolutely no qualifications and didn't even have a high school diploma, no imagine that the person is interviewing for a job as an ermergancy surgeon, now imagine they want to be president.

tool · Sep 10, 2004

Ooh come on now. He is a politican for crying out loud. It doesnt matter if he is telling the truth or not. He is automatically considered to be a liar like every single politican out there. It is a fact, and we should all know this and accept it by now. Politicans are liars, that is their job.

SugarBear · Sep 10, 2004

not that isn't absolutely wrong, which it is, but the point isn't whether or not he's a liar, it's whether or not he's fit to run a country.

You realize that better than half of the american voters have no idea who they're voting for, they just go for the name they hear the most often, if word gets out that despite what he's done to date in office he may not be that credible of a person, the unknowns and the swing votes could go another direction.

This is more than just crooked politicians, this is your future, this is everyone in America's future, even if you're not of voting age yet you have a responsibility to be as educated about the candidates as you can be, the future is truly in your hands, if more people realised that, maybe we would have fewer complaints about elected officials.

O.S.T · Sep 10, 2004

SugarBear said:
You realize that better than half of the american voters have no idea who they're voting for, they just go for the name they hear the most often

if most americans just vote the name they hear most often you should be happy that paris hilton isn't running for president

[PSA] How Not to Forge a Military Document

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