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JACK SH!T
8th Sep 2004, 12:08 AM
I was wondering if the UnWheel team was going to do anything about car control....
I noticed that no matter what car I use, once it starts to spin out, there is no correction control.
If I start to spin to the right and try to correct by steering left (into the slide), I spin out. It would be nice if this mod/conversion alowed steering corrections like I/we would do in the real world.

Yes, I know there are games out there that do that, but I'm talking about "UnWheel"
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I asked in another thread about the cool sounds, but I'll ask again.... :(
What is the pacage that has all the cool sayings/songs, and where do I find a list of the commands?
such as:
pos=F*ck you, you peice of sh!t
inthenavy= In the Navy (song plays)
007= James Bond theam
x= X Files theam
etc,etc......

Ravu al Hemio
8th Sep 2004, 12:16 AM
Um... I don't get it.

What do you mean? Voice packages? Text-to-speech? Announcer voices?

JACK SH!T
8th Sep 2004, 12:42 AM
Um... I don't get it.

What do you mean? Voice packages? Text-to-speech? Announcer voices?
goto this server
*looks for addy*
81.2.131.18
or is it...
66.208.105.242
*brb with the right addy*.............

JACK SH!T
8th Sep 2004, 12:53 AM
goto this server
*looks for addy*
81.2.131.18
or is it...
66.208.105.242
*brb with the right addy*.............
ok, the correct addy to see what I mean is 81.2.131.18:27100
after you join the race, type (t=text to speach on my setup): pos, gay, ymca, stop, 007, fu, inthenavy, x, clint, mofo (one at a time ofcourse)....... the list goes on and on
I love the server, but it's race only.
I'm on my way there now
1:53AM EST

Ravu al Hemio
8th Sep 2004, 01:18 AM
ok, the correct addy to see what I mean is 81.2.131.18:27100
after you join the race, type (t=text to speach on my setup): pos, gay, ymca, stop, 007, fu, inthenavy, x, clint, mofo (one at a time ofcourse)....... the list goes on and on
I love the server, but it's race only.
I'm on my way there now
1:53AM EST
I'd ask the server admin... It isn't a default UnWheel feature, nor do I think is it an official UT2004 feature.

ProjectX
8th Sep 2004, 10:32 AM
I'd ask the server admin... It isn't a default UnWheel feature, nor do I think is it an official UT2004 feature.

yeah it's custom, and I haven't managed to find a download for it yet :(

Ravu al Hemio
8th Sep 2004, 12:05 PM
yeah it's custom, and I haven't managed to find a download for it yet :(
I think I have... will post results of decompilation in a bit...

EDIT: W00t! I rule!

Okay, enough of the pretentious self-advertisement, to the details of the package:
Name: Zound
Link: http://www.utzone.de/include.php?path=content/download.php&contentid=2892

EDIT2: I have the UAX files, but their size is a bit too big for transfers. Here a little tut to decompile them:
1. Open your command prompt and CD to your UT2004\System folder.
2. Open up explorer and check your cache.ini under UT2004\Cache.
3. In the INI, find the package named "0402.uax"
4. Copy the file with the long filename that corresponds to 0402.uax into a safe place, e.g. C:\temp.
5. In the command prompt, type:
ucc pkg export sound <path-to-uax> <extraction-path>
so e.g.
ucc pkg export sound C:\temp\0402.uax C:\temp\0402-extracted
6. Listen!

NOTE: I wouldn't even *try* to upload the files here, because there are a lot of references to topics which shouldn't appear on a PG forum. You have been warned.

By The Way: Because the server, and so the sound files, are partly in German, feel free to ask what something means. I am a born Czech living in Austria and knowing a large bit of English, so you can ask me about all of these three languages.

J3110
8th Sep 2004, 01:58 PM
After installing UnWheel and connecting to the server, you didn't notice that you still had to download something "other" than unwheel called "Zounds"?

Actually I'm here about car control as well. Yeah man it blows without a force feedback steering wheel, doesn't it? Well, you can't just sit there with your finger on the throttle while trying to countersteer because of course you'd just spin out...try "modulating" your throttle a little bit or even a "lot bit" and you might see some changes. Brakes are good too.
Observe how fast you can go in certain corners and start to pay attention to your speed(ahem...maybe you guys could hook us up with a speedo?).
While "locked" into a turn, if you hold throttle and turn at the same time, eventually it starts sliding, right? I don't think it's because you suddenly turned in more...it's the speed. To counter this issue, tap the throttle a bit in the corner...this'll also get you sliding sooner, but at least you are the one in control now. ;)
When you start sliding sideways then you can let off the turn and throttle key to regain your stability and then get back on the throttle first and the turn second or vice-versa but the first way will be more stable.
To get around the limitations of driving with microscopic handling thresholds, I find myself often overcompensating on the speed by either almost coming to full stops in sharper corners or by spinning myself out when I think counter-steering is gonna help. The trick is getting to know the car you're driving and how long it takes to get to full speed and slow back down again...then find out how fast it can be going on a flat turn...then learn the track...coming to a turn...slow to appropriate speed and turn...start sliding? get off the gas and then back on again while not turning...eventually you'll be trying to slide the rear around on purpouse.
Drifting in this mod is pretty awesome once you start doing it right, but the problem is it seems like you can't really exit a drift without scrubbing a buncha speed to avoid the spin-out.
One of my favs is the first corner of citytrack after the first lap...if you're going nice n fast and stay to the right, you can hit the brakes and turn for a second and then get back on the gas to induce the drift...then just coast it...you should be sliding at about a 45 degree angle...without turning, hit the gas again and if you catch the point where you stop sliding and your acceleration curve is starting to take over right, you can exit the drift under control, but it's kinda tricky and I haven't found a fool-proof method yet.

Anyone else? Obviously I can use some pointers as well.

JACK SH!T
8th Sep 2004, 08:15 PM
After installing UnWheel and connecting to the server, you didn't notice that you still had to download something "other" than unwheel called "Zounds"?
==========================
I'm on a 3 meg connection, small server side downloads go so fast, that I don't get to see what they are. Thanx for the "Zounds" info though.


you can't just sit there with your finger on the throttle while trying to countersteer because of course you'd just spin out...try "modulating" your throttle a little bit or even a "lot bit" and you might see some changes. Brakes are good too.
========================================


Once the spin out starts (useing a mouse wether I'm accellerating or not) I can't stop it. I use the brakes to spin out on tight turns like a dog leg, other wise I let off the throttle to brake. Slows down like a boat LOL :-)
I do have some idea how to play the game..... 90% of the time I finnish a race in the top 3-4...
I use the "slide" to take other turns. I realy like that aspect of the game. Works great on maps like Red Planet & Lost Gods.
I've found that the sand-rails seem to handle the best (I've masterd the slide with this class, I can slide it into a curve without letting off the gas). Mid range speed with the best handleing in tight turns. I don't know what "class" they fall in; S-class, V-class??? But I really like the speed of the "sports cars". But they don't turn well (kindda takes the sport out of sports car), and once they start to spin, that's it, no correction, your toast.....
As far as your "speedo" comment, look at the bottom right conner of your screen, there is a speed bar there already....


Just wondering, like I said, I use the "sand-rails" the most (Accelerator I think it's called). What car is your choice? I want to use the GTX *I forget what the game calls it* becouse of it's speed. But it takes to long to turn at speed, and spins out easy once the slide starts.

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I forgot to mention that with the faster cars, I'm better of to let off the gas and steer into the slide, do the 360, come almost to a stop and then start again....
I'm looking forwords to more advice!!! ;-p
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J3110
8th Sep 2004, 10:17 PM
Sounds like it's just the game, then.
I agree that once a spin starts, you can't really stop it. I was basicaly just saying don't let one start. Either catch it when it starts or just take the handling at speed limitations for what they are and just drive more point and shoot style.
I usually use the f1 just because I saw some dude winning with it all the time, so I decided to learn that one first...I dunno how many classes there are, but I agree the buggies are most stable in a slide...same with master of disaster, but it's kinda different..more like fishtailing.
This game just kinda lacks that arcade type mechanic where the game does what you suggest rather than exactly what you do. Unforgiving like that, which is cool...we're all still playing the same game which is as much about avoiding attrition as it is about finding the edge of control and car selection.
I guess it'd help to know exactly what happens when you press each key and if anything different happens when you use key combos. I'd like to think that there is a type of acceleration curve rather than linear acceleration and that the steering is different on all the cars as well as how that acceleration curve looks...it'd give us more of an idea of what inputs we're making...then we gotta take the terrain and collision models into account.
In the meantime, I'll just keep trying.
GL


edit: oh yeah, forgot about the speedo there...maybe change it anyways since it's just a relocated(if that?) charge bar that comes with the game...not a priority at all, though.
3mb/s must be nice.

JACK SH!T
8th Sep 2004, 10:54 PM
I think I have... will post results of decompilation in a bit...

EDIT: W00t! I rule!

Okay, enough of the pretentious self-advertisement, to the details of the package:
Name: Zound
Link: http://www.utzone.de/include.php?path=content/download.php&contentid=2892

EDIT2: I have the UAX files, but their size is a bit too big for transfers. Here a little tut to decompile them:
1. Open your command prompt and CD to your UT2004\System folder.
2. Open up explorer and check your cache.ini under UT2004\Cache.
3. In the INI, find the package named "0402.uax"
4. Copy the file with the long filename that corresponds to 0402.uax into a safe place, e.g. C:\temp.
5. In the command prompt, type:
ucc pkg export sound <path-to-uax> <extraction-path>
so e.g.
ucc pkg export sound C:\temp\0402.uax C:\temp\0402-extracted
6. Listen!

NOTE: I wouldn't even *try* to upload the files here, because there are a lot of references to topics which shouldn't appear on a PG forum. You have been warned.

By The Way: Because the server, and so the sound files, are partly in German, feel free to ask what something means. I am a born Czech living in Austria and knowing a large bit of English, so you can ask me about all of these three languages.

Thanx for doing the homework on that Ravu al Hemio. I thought it was a default UnWheel thing that the server had to activate. The server I posted just happened to be one of the first servers I found after installing UnWheel (sits on my fave list now). What's the chances of finding something like that right off the bat???
Did you see if Zound works on any UT2K4 server, or is it for UnWheel only? :lol:

Ravu al Hemio
8th Sep 2004, 11:49 PM
Thanx for doing the homework on that Ravu al Hemio. I thought it was a default UnWheel thing that the server had to activate. The server I posted just happened to be one of the first servers I found after installing UnWheel (sits on my fave list now). What's the chances of finding something like that right off the bat???
Did you see if Zound works on any UT2K4 server, or is it for UnWheel only? :lol:
It sure is UT2004 everything. I tried it out. Compatibility with UnWheel only wouldn't make it too lucrative ;)
By the way, no problem. I have even learned how UT2004 saves its cache and how I can extract things if needed - thanks to you. It is three quarters of my knowledge that I get by being curious... I'd even say there are some things I know though I shouldn't know them :D

Chances of finding a server with Zound are a bit hard, because a lot of servers makes Zound not show up in the public list of mutators (that is transferred to/from the master server, the *real* one is transferred when you join, AFAIK). So, it's all about luck, pressing T, and typing 'mofo'... or 'time?'. 'Time?' is a default feature of Zound where it recites the server system time in some kinda alien voice.

After installing UnWheel and connecting to the server, you didn't notice that you still had to download something "other" than unwheel called "Zounds"?
I'd bet that they are the sound packages. '0402' and 'nav303' are the sound packages on that server at the time of writing.

ProjectX
9th Sep 2004, 01:37 AM
edit: oh yeah, forgot about the speedo there...maybe change it anyways since it's just a relocated(if that?) charge bar that comes with the game...not a priority at all, though.
3mb/s must be nice.

That's a very insulting quote of yours considering that Shrimp made it himself with hard work and toil.

Ravu al Hemio
9th Sep 2004, 08:19 AM
That's a very insulting quote of yours considering that Shrimp made it himself with hard work and toil.
Oh yes. You try computing average velocity of all the wheels the vehicle has, putting it into a working scale, positioning it on the HUD, make it colour correctly, get into the painful phase of trial and error, compile ten times, then see it work at last, J3110, and you can talk about a relocated charge bar. I do agree it is not graphically the w00tiest thing under the sun, but I think the features in the upcoming version will blow my socks off more than a nicer speedometer ever would.
*looking forward [not only] to the race progress meter and feels like joining the UnWheel team, then remembering that a sociopath not too favourite with the lead will hardly have a chance*

J3110
9th Sep 2004, 09:24 AM
Sorry, I meant no disrespect or anything and obviously don't know anything about coding or modding and I'm sure whatever's being worked on will be just great...already excited about what Shrimp's posted of what he's been working on...I'm just a player, though, and all I know is what I see and the bar looks similar to the scorpion and manta's charge bar graphic. The reason I said "if that" was because I couldn't remember where the manta and scorp's charge graphic was and it coulda been the same location...just lazy and forgetful like that, I am. Like I said, though...it's certainly sufficient at what it does and changing it is a low priority.
Really, though, if it is the same graphic, then yeah, I'd want UnWheel to really go the extra mile and define itself because it's already so well put together that it deserves nothing less than it's own full identity. You can argue all you want about how being in EC is validation enough that it's doing well, but as a fan, sometimes you can't help but want the best for whatever mod, mutator or map that you're "rooting for".
So as much as it sounded like I meant that as an insult, I think you guys may have jumped alittle soon in thinking I was implying that it was no big deal and probably wasn't that hard. Honestly, I've never really been a fan of the bar speed indicators on racing games, so I've always gone with the analog versions if available, but that's just me and wouldn't it be baddass if UnWheel sported the ability to choose between the 2. Like I said, though...I know it isn't a priority and I'd rather see whatever Shrimp's working on then a reskinned speedo graphic.
I'm actually on the beta team for Excessive and have seen players overlook some of the awesome nuances that MadNad worked into the mutator that just makes it really come together, so I can relate to your defensive postures, but do you think that I would be running my server exclusively as an UnWheel server supporting this mod if I didn't think it was damn sweet? I'm not a troll, dude. I mean there's lots of other stuff out there I could run, but I chose UnWheel, so maybe that says something. I can still put my foot in my mouth, though, can't I? :D
Anyways, I'll just go crawl into my hole of ignorance again.
Peace.

ProjectX
9th Sep 2004, 11:12 AM
Peace man, It was a joke. I forgot you hadn't witnessed most of my posts on here (I sorta assume everyone's been here since beta 2.0) and therefore realised I have a tendancy to joke at most things. Honestly, I'm sure Shrimp wasn't much insulted.

As for making this the best mod there ever is, we wan't to do that, but we wan't to do that for everybody, so if you were to persuade Shrimp that you want a speedo there's have to be a significant enough majority vote on it.

J3110
9th Sep 2004, 11:31 AM
Cool, yeah, I'm sure we've all read the saying that the internet doesn't carry sarcasm well. ;)
Anyways, yeah, I couldn't really care less about the speedo as there are just too many other factors to vehicle handling and speed can be judged well enough based on sight and sound(sounds are synced well to the speed, BTW...kudos as it's rather useful).
It's really hard to play racers with FPS controls. Especially when the handling can be so touchy. I'll hafta see about hookin up a game controller or something to get a better feel for things. The last racing game I played this much on my PC was Motorhead. I forget if that game had the same issues, but already I know that UnWheel has way more variety...it'd just be sweet if you could get the racers to handle like that, I guess. Hafta try playing it again if I can even find it.
I've been into UnWheel and looking foreward to playing it online since the beta with 2K3 where the bulldog was basically the only vehicle in UnWheel and all you could do was drive around in UWRM-Clearing...before it was even "UWRM", I think...dunno which beta or alpha that was, but I just never joined the forums...now that it's playable online, though...here I am.

Ravu al Hemio
9th Sep 2004, 11:36 AM
Peace man, It was a joke. I forgot you hadn't witnessed most of my posts on here (I sorta assume everyone's been here since beta 2.0) and therefore realised I have a tendancy to joke at most things. Honestly, I'm sure Shrimp wasn't much insulted.
A joke... where was that sociopath line??? "a sociopath not too favourite with the lead will hardly have a chance" Sorry I overreacted, I seem to be running a beta version of 'Acceptable Behaviour 2004' - some of my subroutines haven't been updated from 'Acceptable Behaviour 50000 BC - Stone Age Man'... :rolleyes:
Okay, I don't expect any sympathy (who would accept sympathy for a stupid small teenie whiner anyway?). Yes, I know I am an arrogant little bitch... and *see sociopath line*.

As for making this the best mod there ever is, we wan't to do that, but we wan't to do that for everybody, so if you were to persuade Shrimp that you want a speedo there's have to be a significant enough majority vote on it.
Well... you seem to have done an ub3r1337 mod, and making the 'best mod there ever is' is an impossible challenge, but you sure do have the potential... "Weiter so!" (German for 'Keep it up!'). By the way, I have an idea for another gametype. It can be played on race or rally maps and will be called something like 'clear ride'. In this gametype, you must limit the number (and strength) of crashes as much as possible. If two players have the same damage at the end, the time decides. (The one with least damage, then lowest time wins) Unfortunately, I can't code it, because it would need some changes to UWSCar, and too many existing classes depend on its name, so I can't change it.

ProjectX
9th Sep 2004, 02:15 PM
In this gametype, you must limit the number (and strength) of crashes as much as possible. If two players have the same damage at the end, the time decides. (The one with least damage, then lowest time wins) Unfortunately, I can't code it, because it would need some changes to UWSCar, and too many existing classes depend on its name, so I can't change it.

That would make for uber-long race times, more like a combination of least damage and fastest times (i.e. you get +1 second for a scrape and up to +5 for a full on crash) and once the penalties are added the winner is calculated. Also the slower cars e.g. monster trucks, the centipede etc. would get less of a time penalty

carmatic
13th Sep 2004, 05:11 PM
hmm maybe he meant by 'time decides' as in... uhh, like 'overtime' or something... the guys just last it out , the first one to get that extra dent loses or something... mmm

and oh, about the uncontrollable spinning out thing... i think that the car's handling when you do the spinning out is like borrowed from the scorpion's 180 degree spin move, like the one that you get when you press 'jump' when driving in the scorpion... i think, a strict spinout will make it kinda frustrating and stuff, maybe the cars should retain some control during a spin, and the spin itself should last longer and be more likely to occur, that is its something like the old kvehicle handling, only with proper on-road handling that the svehicle makes possible..like, just say its some kind of abs the cars have installed or something....

ok ive just spent more precious time with unwheel, and have got some stuff to say... umm... like.... first of all, i cant see the driver through the front windscreen of the master of disaster... and it still gets kvehicle-slow in places like faerie when you have bots and you see all of them at the same time , heck im using an athlon64 3800 and a geforce 6800ultra , and its still getting bogged down in these situations into my old xp3200 and radeon9800xt frame rates... other than that, like, i tried out the master of disaster , and i must say i liked the trails of smoke coming from the side, and the handling is waaay improved and doesnt feel like a bulldog anymore, plus i love the fender bender action when i squash smaller cars... this vehicle has a relatively unforgiving spin out, but i find that it can be made to do a beautiful slide if you do not jam the steering into the opposite direction like your instincts tell you...next i tried the xvert, and i thought, wow, better handling and cpu optimizations at the same time! what could be better... i love the point bonuses that daredevils give ,as well as how much more forgiving it is in terms of spinning out... this spinout aspect of the game gives each vehicle more identity... also i tried the caterpillar on motox, and the frame rate practically stayed at my vsync limit of 75 hz... plus whats that kinky thing at the jump where it goes into slow mo and shows the 979 jump off ? how does it work in multiplayer when you cant have slo mo? and i think there should be water splashy effects , like the splash effects epic put in that patch, but originating at the radius distance away from the center of the tire,directly underneath each tire...also the master of disaster still has that wheel sinking into the ground thing,and that vehicles should have an offset for the flame effect that is determined by the author of the vehicle so the flame from the master of disaster comes from the right place, and not from the gearbox thing between its front wheels... and oh, will you guys get around into splitting the cars up into their different suspension bits, especially the monster trucks? or modifying some cars to show suspension like the svehicle code allows... the worry i had about the wheel rpm of the vehicles being ugly looking seems to be thankfully not true, too, like i never spotted the wheels spinning considerably out of speed, only a few glitchy instances, but the classic problems like the wheels clipping into geometry and stuff caught my attention more... now if only there was a way to blur the texture on the wheels and apply them as a kind of pseudo motion blur, so they dont look like theyre still or theyre a hypnotic flashing thing on your screen...

mmhh long post... i guess i sort of put everyone off there, didnt i?

CIpen
18th Sep 2004, 10:08 PM
I have become a verteran over the summer in uscript. Lately I've been helping out UD, because my mech really wants a skin. What I've done for coding part of the mod is just rediculas.

Today, I just took a look at this mod.

You know, I don't know what to say. I'm still wondering how the programmers have not fixed this yet. I'm still wondering why they used KCar..... I'm still wondering why the vehicle code is so ... commented....

Ya, there is a rather easy answer for the vehicle slipping like the wheels are made of bananas. The vehicle controls just tear this work of art mod apart...

If you code for UnWheel I'll give you a little input on what I'm doing for UD:
class WheelCraft extends ONSVehicle;

Ya, I got it to work too... And today I was so close to posting the code on 3dBuzz.com for the community....

Blah.. coding is not hard, unless it's hard for you to think straight.

UltraNew-B
19th Sep 2004, 12:00 AM
a) UnWheel EC uses UT2004 S-Vehicle code. (old version of UnWheel uses K-Vehicle)
b) What is UD?
c) What are you talking about exactly?

:)

Ravu al Hemio
19th Sep 2004, 12:50 AM
b) What is UD?
Seems like Unreal Demolition.

CIpen
19th Sep 2004, 11:08 PM
From the looks of it, the top speed of these things looks to be the default, which is 63mph. But that doesn't matter as ever vehicle has the same torquecurve. From the looks of it, the tire grip is stock Unreal04 script too. I did notice that on some maps, I couldn't spin out on the turns (like there was a gripvolume or something?).

Yes, you can steer through the curves that don't have gripvolumes. All you do is rapidly hit the accel button(it slows you down but keeps you goind). Infact, there are many ways to get around that. You could have an extra button for a soft break. You could go back to the KCar and have GearDown GearUp controls.

I like the number of cars in this mod + the number of maps. There is a lot here that is off the chain. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too...

Citizen059
20th Sep 2004, 11:36 AM
I kinda like how it is now.

In turns where you don't want oversteer, you just slow down a bit, either before or during the turn, and usually the cars respond just fine.

There are times, of course, when you want some oversteer around a curve. Like being the rabbit on UWRM-Clearing in a Horizon 200T and hitting a turn at full speed :D

If you want the car to oversteer for a curve, just drive it hard into the corner until you see the back end start to step out, then let off the steering and keep the throttle floored, usually the car will spin itself around the corner and straighten out into the direction you want to go.

If not, let off the gas as soon as you see the car start to break loose.

Sometimes you won't save it, that's just the way it is. Every now and then the car will just whip around too fast, and there's nothing you can do but try to spin it back around and keep going.

A lot of spins are induced by the track itself. Any elevation change, no matter how small, is often too severe for the suspension of some of the cars to handle. The car will start to bounce, and any steering input is usually enough to spin you out. That's the only issue I have, is how easy it is for some cars to start hopping across the ground over small bumps. Example: Going up and down the hills in the track at Pavilion.

UltraNew-B
20th Sep 2004, 12:03 PM
a.) top speeds are not all the same.
b.) no such thing as a grip volume in UnWheel
c.) k-car is not an option, it devours fps like a hungry bear :p

CIpen
20th Sep 2004, 10:16 PM
I can't get enough of looksing at some of the cars in the mod....

I love how the Centipede and the VenomGTSR have the same mass. And for some reason I've always thought that big trucks like the Centipede had like 15-17 gears on them...

You're going to love UD's stick shift car I've made for them :) (still an SVehicle too). In second gear and wanna go around a curve? Just change down to first gear and let the engine break you :) You'll see ;)

Ravu al Hemio
20th Sep 2004, 11:15 PM
a.) top speeds are not all the same.
Yes. But there are groups of cars with the same top speed. It would be nice to fill the decimals to make some subtle differences between the cars.
b.) no such thing as a grip volume in UnWheel
... whatever that is.
c.) k-car is not an option, it devours fps like a hungry bear :p
Hell, Epic also dropped the MP support for KVehicles, and if UnWheel needs something from its innards, it can still be implemented into UWSCar, great-great-great-grandchild of SVehicle.

ProjectX
21st Sep 2004, 01:05 AM
b.) no such thing as a grip volume in UnWheel


It still exists, it's just completely dead. I've got an ice map in the works and if Shrimp fixes those grip volumes we'll all be slip sliding away!

J3110
21st Sep 2004, 09:51 AM
Isn't there a tut on the VTM disc of the DVD edition about grip volumes? Kinda like a ladder volume, I think.
They had a cube with a lateral gravity setting and a thin grip volume so when you jumped, it flung you at a wall. Maybe use the same principle?

CIpen
21st Sep 2004, 11:36 AM
Infact I took a look at all the curves for the cars, it turns out that one car has the best curve(most area under the curve which equals more torque). The top speed of the car was 81 mph, and the highest gear could take you from 0-81 mph.

Hell, Epic also dropped the MP support for KVehicles, and if UnWheel needs something from its innards, it can still be implemented into UWSCar, great-great-great-grandchild of SVehicle.

No I don't think you can do that. What makes SVehicle and KVehicle different? The tires. The tires accept for (such as a landing from a jump) and then that force is translated up the bone chain to the chassy. Well what if you're giving it gas but the force against the ground is say the opposite(no to turn)? What we have are to forces trying to act on the object they are attached to.

Infact, I don't think you can have it so you can change gears using epic's code. Well, I take that back, you can, but you will not be able to do engine breaking. What you must keep in mind is that Epic wanted a noob-proof game so to speak.

I could go on and on... you'd have to know some coding stuff to understand me though :(

I can say that you shouldn't be messing with a class as high up the chain as SVehicle or KVehicle. Those classes are the base things you can't really do without, and there is nothing really that needs changing. :)

Ravu al Hemio
21st Sep 2004, 01:16 PM
No I don't think you can do that. What makes SVehicle and KVehicle different? The tires. The tires accept for (such as a landing from a jump) and then that force is translated up the bone chain to the chassy. Well what if you're giving it gas but the force against the ground is say the opposite(no to turn)? What we have are to forces trying to act on the object they are attached to.
Interesting. Didn't actually read much of the source for the two classes, so I can't really know...
Infact, I don't think you can have it so you can change gears using epic's code. Well, I take that back, you can, but you will not be able to do engine breaking. What you must keep in mind is that Epic wanted a noob-proof game so to speak.
How unfortunate... KVehicle buggy, SVehicle too simple... UT2004 sure wasn't conceived for realism, so it seems we can dump this thread - "no hope here".
I could go on and on... you'd have to know some coding stuff to understand me though :(
Continue if you want, I'm all ears and a programmer.
I can say that you shouldn't be messing with a class as high up the chain as SVehicle or KVehicle. Those classes are the base things you can't really do without, and there is nothing really that needs changing. :)
Sure not, but implementing the functions in UWSCar, the great-great-great-grandchild (polymorphism, you know) might be a solution... unless, as it seems, the whole wheel system is different.

CIpen
21st Sep 2004, 04:55 PM
Do you know know that one of the companies that were involved with the output of Unreal Tournament 2004 released the native side of the code they did. This studio did all the ONS vehicle coding.

Incase you just don't know you can download the code at their (http://www.psyonix.com/) web site.

Try taking a look at ONSWheeledCraft.cpp sometime....

JACK SH!T
22nd Sep 2004, 12:50 AM
I find this conversation quite interesting. I downloaded Linux so I'd have pearl, python, c - c++, and to try to break free from M$. I heard that if you can write html, that you're well on your way to knowing how to program. Is this true? I haven't been brave enough to try yet. I think the main reason is that I don't know how to access the source codes for anything yet. If I wanted to look at the UT code (any version), how would I access it? I'm not about to change anything yet, but I'd like to see it, and try to learn what's what.
Any tips, or basic web sites would be helpfull ;)

*EDIT*
I did just go grab the ONS source code from your link...

CIpen
22nd Sep 2004, 04:13 PM
Well, it does no good to have the source, and not know what to do with it...

JACK SH!T
22nd Sep 2004, 08:31 PM
Well, it does no good to have the source, and not know what to do with it...
You missed what I said....I want to study it and try to understand what means what...
Oh yeah, thanx for the help that I was looking for.... :rolleyes:
Instead of trying to out geek everyone, try adding to the conversation.
Just wondering, where can I/we see some of your code work? :o

CIpen
22nd Sep 2004, 10:28 PM
"Well, it does no good to have the source, and not know what to do with it..."

If you want to look at my code, well, don't, because my code isn't for starters. You have to really have a good idea behind what's going on to understand my code.

But don't worry, there is a really really well commented boat code over here (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=404900&highlight=boat)
.
:eek: That's good stuff to learn from. It has just about everything you need in a boat except engine (if i remember). The whole UpdateVehicle function is there, which is the heart of any good vehicle mod.

If you have ever looked at SCar.uc and KCar.uc, you'd prolly notice that they have these lines at the top:

#ifdef WITH_KARMA
// Actor interface.
virtual UBOOL Tick(FLOAT DeltaTime, enum ELevelTick TickType);
virtual void PostNetReceive();

// SVehicle interface.
virtual void UpdateVehicle(FLOAT DeltaTime);

// SCar interface.
virtual void ProcessCarInput();
virtual void ChangeGear(UBOOL bReverse);
virtual void PackState();
#endif

And if you look back at the boat code you'll see it has all those functions written out.

Sorry about the geekness, but this car I have with the clutch/gears is just too sweet. It allows me to go mud'n in first gear 4 wheel drive :D :eek2:

JACK SH!T
22nd Sep 2004, 11:23 PM
"And if you look back at the boat code you'll see it has all those functions written out."
ok, I think I would have figured that out....However, I still won't pretent to understand what any of it means...
What is it writtin' in? pearl, c++, java?????
Also, are you "mrslatezb" in the atari forums? or is that someone elses code?

ProjectX
23rd Sep 2004, 01:40 AM
"And if you look back at the boat code you'll see it has all those functions written out."
ok, I think I would have figured that out....However, I still won't pretent to understand what any of it means...
What is it writtin' in? pearl, c++, java?????
Also, are you "mrslatezb" in the atari forums? or is that someone elses code?

UnrealScript IS C++ isn't it (with small variations, I wouldn't know I'm a mapper)

CIpen
23rd Sep 2004, 08:32 AM
UnrealScript IS C++ isn't it (with small variations, I wouldn't know I'm a mapper)

Very true what he says, if you know C and or C++ you can program in just about any lanuage.

Also, are you "mrslatezb" in the atari forums? or is that someone elses code?

No I'm not.

Ravu al Hemio
23rd Sep 2004, 09:06 AM
Very true what he says, if you know C and or C++ you can program in just about any lanuage.
Oh yes, I group the languages C, C++, C#, UnrealScript, Java, etc. into the so called "C-oids". Since I am a diehard C# programmer and have made experience with C and C++, it didn't take me long to learn UnrealScript... and it doesn't have pointers, which I hate above anything else because that kind of memory calling is... :mad:

CIpen
23rd Sep 2004, 09:59 PM
How about I put it like this, with the ONSWheeled craft in script, you can define an array of these as I have already done:

WheelLongFrictionFunc(0)
WheelLatSlipFunc(0)
WheelLongSlip(0)
WheelLongFrictionScale(0)
WheelLatFrictionScale(0)

This allows for something really good that epic didn't do....

This allows to have a trace to see what type of material the wheel(s) are in contact with, so you can then have the right wheel slip on each of the surfaces...

So when your racing and you try to wip through a curve at 130 mph but you end up in the grass, the car would slip around much more in the grass...

:D

ProjectX
24th Sep 2004, 01:29 AM
How about I put it like this, with the ONSWheeled craft in script, you can define an array of these as I have already done:

WheelLongFrictionFunc(0)
WheelLatSlipFunc(0)
WheelLongSlip(0)
WheelLongFrictionScale(0)
WheelLatFrictionScale(0)

This allows for something really good that epic didn't do....

This allows to have a trace to see what type of material the wheel(s) are in contact with, so you can then have the right wheel slip on each of the surfaces...

So when your racing and you try to wip through a curve at 130 mph but you end up in the grass, the car would slip around much more in the grass...

:D

I like it! I've been looking for ways to make the monsters more equal to the racing cars in a race and this is it! If a monster truck hits the grass it would be much less affected by the slip cause of those huge beefy tractor-like treads it's got, whereas a race car doesn't have that kind of grip.

carmatic
6th Oct 2004, 12:12 PM
hmm i would like to see your finished product, cipen... you seem really really proud of it, i wonder if it will be justified

Smokin
6th Oct 2004, 06:34 PM
One thing i wouuld like to see would be some sort of traction control on surfaces. In UnrealSpeed we had it so Ice was very slipery and gravel had heaps of grip with other surface types in between. It feels like the vehicles are lacking grip with the ground, if you are going to add more grip dont add to much as sliding round a corner is the thing we want.

carmatic
7th Oct 2004, 07:25 PM
yeah like powerslides would be cool... like, uhh ive been thinking of the traction control idea too, like its just too unforgiving when you spin out... whose idea was it to punish the player for spinning out anyway? i think its important to follow what gamers think of as good handling, not what the mod makers think of as good driving... which roughly means sega rally style powerskids when gamers want them, like turning the steering wheel instinctively would have a positive effect on the outcome of the turn...

ProjectX
8th Oct 2004, 01:46 AM
yeah like powerslides would be cool... like, uhh ive been thinking of the traction control idea too, like its just too unforgiving when you spin out... whose idea was it to punish the player for spinning out anyway? i think its important to follow what gamers think of as good handling, not what the mod makers think of as good driving... which roughly means sega rally style powerskids when gamers want them, like turning the steering wheel instinctively would have a positive effect on the outcome of the turn...

Hey, we tried to get rid of as much of the poor handling as we could. You hate it now? You shoulda tried it before :(

But it does give you an incentive to practise. :D

Smokin
8th Oct 2004, 01:48 AM
Yeah I reakon its better now than before your moved to Svehilces.

carmatic
8th Oct 2004, 09:22 PM
yeah dont any of you remember my ungrateful rambles back in 2003 about how all the vehicles behave like a wheeled tank, back in the old unwheel forums(where was it hosted again before it moved to beyondunreal)? its certainly better now, and definitely much much faster... but what im just trying to say, is like, the player should have control all the time the wheels are touching the ground...

JACK SH!T
21st Oct 2004, 08:56 PM
hehehe, now that I got the hang of it, your getting ready to add new cars LOL
any/how many new maps going to be in the patch?

ProjectX
22nd Oct 2004, 01:11 AM
hehehe, now that I got the hang of it, your getting ready to add new cars LOL
any/how many new maps going to be in the patch?

The next patch will make it radically easier to control the cars, but they will still skid as much as they do.

Oh and I've added a couple of maps but I've given you enough info as it is.

carmatic
22nd Oct 2004, 03:39 AM
umm ok... i dont mind them skidding, but i dont like it when they are out of control , it must be an svehicle thing that makes them behave like sliding bricks or something... the way the vehicles in unwheel seem to work is you 'throw' them around corners , like where the corners are gentle enough to just steer through , you might just let go of the accelerator for abit and steer your way through, but most other corners look like they are from Deathmatch maps or something and you need special cornering techniques to maneuver them, and because of the lack of control during skids you'll just have to land them somewhere along the corner, then drive out of it from a standstill...
will the next patch also include the camera system that that british guy made back in unwheel's days in strategy-x? it gives an illusion of vehicular well-being when the camera follows the car in a graceful manner

Shrimp
22nd Oct 2004, 07:03 AM
Erm, we have a very nice behind-view camera already... Check out your control config ;)

carmatic
22nd Oct 2004, 12:18 PM
yeah i've cycled through all the cams before already... one that follows the front left wheel, one that follows the front right wheel, one that goes in the cockpit, etc etc... i actually preferred to use the mouse to manually turn the view than let the follow camera turn for me... i dunno, but it feels too restrictive and claustrophobic, how it shifts to the sides of the car when its rolling about ,its very disorienting like that...also when its skidding, the camera seems to trace a point in front of the car and not on the car itself,and the car quickly drifts out of view during slides and stuff... the point in front of the car is a good idea , like it veers the camera to where the player wants to turn, but its conflicting with this skidding concept that you put into unwheel... maybe, in situations where the driver would fall out of the scorpion, the camera should automatically drop, and then after a delay the car rights itself and the camera resumes following the car... the 'follow' cam is just too stiff behind the car and i cant see jack of where the car is going to go... maybe i can try to play with the fov while im in unwheel using the follow cam

::edit:: ok, a fov setting of 120 is really good with the follow cam... but sometimes it sinks below the terrain or something , no big deal ... much more playable when i have a nice wide view and i see thing that are otherwise offscreen, and it has a 'whoosh' factor when everything zooms in at you like that...
how about like, umm... the camera is still facing in the same direction as it would be now... except, its position is offset horizontally so that the car will always be in the center of the view?how does that sound...tell me if i sound annoying already, cuz ummhh.... i am