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Jrubzjeknf
1st Aug 2004, 07:45 AM
g2g soon, gotta type quickly :(

Cheating or not: triggering your release point, quickly suicide after triggering, respawning in jail and escaping it just before the it closes again.

I'd see it as cheating, since in fact you're being teleported to another place in the map. Opinions plzkthx!


Another thing came up in my mind: when triggering the release point in Arlon (jail shaped in a cube which has 'jailbars' as big as the jail itself), the jailbars go up, and out of the wall in the back of the jail new jailbars appear, pushing everyone out of the jail and preventing the action described above. Again: Opinions plzkthnx!

Mychaeel
1st Aug 2004, 08:04 AM
I'd see it as cheating, since in fact you're being teleported to another place in the map. Opinions plzkthx!
You lose a frag for suiciding, and you lose all your weapons, shield and extra health. I'd say this tactic punishes itself.

Sexmachine
1st Aug 2004, 08:09 AM
NOT cheating imo, just a tactical move (with some sort of self punishment as Mych has explained).

tarquin
1st Aug 2004, 09:29 AM
I do this all the time, but it's not suicide, it's that by the time I'm at the switch I'm getting my ass kicked by the enemy. :D

Jrubzjeknf
1st Aug 2004, 10:27 AM
You lose a frag for suiciding, and you lose all your weapons, shield and extra health. I'd say this tactic punishes itself.

Agree with you there, but that's when you play NW. When playing instagib, you'd lose 2 ADR (if enabled, on most instagib servers it's disabled) and one frag. Dunno for sure for the last one though. Is it correct that each person you free from jail, you get a frag rewarded? In that case, you'd lose a frag by suiciding, but gain one by setting yourself free again. And whether this is true or false, it's in fact still teleporting from one location to another, and you'd only lose one frag and 2 ADR.
IMO there should be an addon that would llamize a person who suicides and then escapes out of jail within X secs.

The_Head
1st Aug 2004, 10:49 AM
IMO there should be an addon that would llamize a person who suicides and then escapes out of jail within X secs.
Nice Idea there.

Birelli
3rd Aug 2004, 04:16 PM
There's also some risk involved in that strategy though. Most jails have fairly quick releases and you might not make it out in time (unless you actually had a suicide button I suppose). Also I frequently do that either as tarq said, the defense jumps on me right as I release, or I do something stupid like fire off a load of rockets at a defender right as I release and they somehow end up at my feet instead...

I'm just not sure how you could make this so it doesn't punish players twice, once for accidentally suiciding (either with self-inflicted damage or falling into lava or something) and then again by llamaizing them.

Trueblood
3rd Aug 2004, 04:38 PM
I see nothing wrong with it really. This tactic is used in other games too. I use it in Assault when the spawn is ready, but in Jail break it doesnt work the same. As Birelli said, normaly by the time you spawn the jail closes on you.

Jrubzjeknf
4th Aug 2004, 04:07 AM
There's also some risk involved in that strategy though. Most jails have fairly quick releases and you might not make it out in time (unless you actually had a suicide button I suppose) (If the jail closes before you get out, my rule doesn't apply here. And yes, I have a suicide button, like many people around here). Also I frequently do that either as tarq said, the defense jumps on me right as I release, or I do something stupid like fire off a load of rockets at a defender right as I release and they somehow end up at my feet instead...(as long as you don't release yourself (getting out of jail because you triggered the release point yourself), everything's save)

.......

Btw, I tested something. Situation: 3 people in jail, you near release point and two enemies hunting you down. You release, suicide the split second you trigger it and jump out of jail just before the gate closes again. You lose 2 adrenaline and one frag for suiciding, you gain 3 frags for releasing teammates and an additional frag for releasing the fourth person who got out of jail: you. Total loss: 2 adrenaline and weapons. In case of Instagib: 2 adrenaline, in case the NoAdrenaline mutator isn't used, which is quite often used in Insta-servers

What you think now after I tested this?

Trueblood
4th Aug 2004, 04:43 AM
But all your doing by suiciding is stopping the other team gaining a frag. Would you rather the person who released to camp at the switch? :con:

Jrubzjeknf
4th Aug 2004, 05:35 AM
it's not about that, it's that it's unfair to the other team to teleport to another spot in the map by suiciding and then escaping out of jail. Therefore, I think there should be an addon created preventing you from doing this by llamizing you the second after you escaped from the jail (you do have to open the jail yourself and you have to suicide). Ex. SavoIsland: 2 guys are defending, you sneek into the little house and trigger the release point. It's very likely you'll be killed, since both defenders will try to shoot you asap. For the defenders it takes at least 1-2 secs to spot you exact point and then nail you (in instagib, in NW you have to add time because they have to damage you before you die). You'll never be able to bust out of jail immediately after the defenders killed you. Suiciding would be a good option: you'll be teleported to the other side of the map, the enemies lose the possibility of gaining a frag and a jailed enemy and you only lose 2 adrenaline and current weapons (if you have them (insta)).
Another situation: it's 4 against 4, you have 3 jailed teammates, the enemy has 2 jailed. Releasing your team, suiciding and defending your own release point, will lower the chances for the enemy team to be released. 2 people gotta face 4 now, instead of 3 (ok, not very much of a diff, but it isn't very fair also)

ArmedNewb
4th Aug 2004, 12:05 PM
Not that I'm really against a player freeing him or herself from jail (I've done it myself a few times), but why not just make something that prevents a player from escaping jail if that person hit the release switch?

Jrubzjeknf
4th Aug 2004, 01:56 PM
because llamizing is more fun ^^

and besides, it's easier to do. If you want to do what you said, you somehow gotta block the player's movements when he's in jail. Llamizing is an implented option which will be triggered after certain events have occured (release, suicide, breakout within X secs)

RabidZombie
4th Aug 2004, 05:32 PM
Hay would it be easy to code a mut where if you suicide after say 5 secs after you do release switc it takes, say, 5 more secs to respawn so you can't respawn before door closes. if that was easy to code that might be a good idea.

Mychaeel
5th Aug 2004, 05:02 AM
Hay would it be easy to code a mut where if you suicide after say 5 secs after you do release switc it takes, say, 5 more secs to respawn so you can't respawn before door closes. if that was easy to code that might be a good idea.
Hmm... good thought. Or we could prevent people from getting release points for releasing themselves -- so at least they'd properly lose a frag when suiciding.

Jrubzjeknf
5th Aug 2004, 06:35 AM
can't work, at least not with force respawn enabled (or you gotta work around that, and that's even more coding). Mine I think is best: If trigger and suicide happens, and timer starts and if you bust outta jail before the timer stops, you'll be llamized

Birelli
5th Aug 2004, 09:48 AM
I think the problem with just llamaizing is it unfairly punishes people who haven't done anything wrong in some cases, which is extremely frustrating to people who haven't seen this discussion (which will be most people using the mod)...unless it's possible to detect whether the suicide was via a console command vs. via normal game happenings (like blowing yourself up with rockets)? If someone actually triggers the suicide via the suicide console command I think it's reasonable to make them a llama at that point.

Jrubzjeknf
5th Aug 2004, 11:09 AM
I don't agree with you. When you trigger the release point, kill yourself and then escape out of jail, you should be llamized. That's because you're actually trying to teleport yourself to another location in the map. And whether you do that with the suicide button or with rockets, I don't care. Don't escape the jail that you opened, else it would be cheating. That's how I see it

Sexmachine
5th Aug 2004, 01:24 PM
I am with Birelli and there is no need to change anything imo.

RabidZombie
5th Aug 2004, 01:28 PM
I am with Birelli and there is no need to change anything imo.

Well i dont really mind, i dont actully do it but its a good tactic for quickly getting to home base. I only giving ideas because its another thing that adds to the collection of great jb related mods

Edit: 'quickly getting to home base quickly'? Opps :D

Jrubzjeknf
5th Aug 2004, 02:17 PM
What now then? Build the addon?

Mychaeel
6th Aug 2004, 04:17 AM
can't work, at least not with force respawn enabled (or you gotta work around that, and that's even more coding). Mine I think is best: If trigger and suicide happens, and timer starts and if you bust outta jail before the timer stops, you'll be llamized
Don't you tell me what can't work in terms of Jailbreak... :)

Jailbreak delays the forced respawns for a few seconds more than normal UT2004 gameplay already. It'd be worth looking into a way to delay it until the jail doors have closed again for a release instigator.

Jrubzjeknf
6th Aug 2004, 05:41 AM
but would it work only suicide only, or will it affect all kills? If you can code it in a way that suicides only will delay, I'd be great!

RabidZombie
6th Aug 2004, 06:02 AM
Oh so my idea might work after all? I think there should be 2, 1 for suicide, and one just for being killed(including suicide) because i am always killing someone just as they press the switch of course it could be optional. as not all be may be in favor of this...

oh i would code this my self... but i have absolutly no idea how to

Jrubzjeknf
6th Aug 2004, 06:29 AM
know what? drop it. People see it as a tactic: if you wanna prevent it (it doesn't give you a real edge ingame anyway), shoot 'm before he's able to do that

Greeger
2nd Sep 2004, 09:52 PM
In JB-Heights it is possible to jump from the top of the tower and land on the switch. This takes away so much health that it would be smarter to just kill yourself and get full health and walk out of jail.

It is really hard to stop someone from doing this.

I think a penalty would be a bad idea though because I enjoy my time in jail.

Jrubzjeknf
3rd Sep 2004, 03:51 PM
k dude, that's just plain weird.....:p

TheSpoonDog
3rd Sep 2004, 10:39 PM
I think a penalty would be a bad idea though because I enjoy my time in jail.

You'll enjoy your time in jail more soon with an escape route in Heights ;)

The_Head
4th Sep 2004, 01:54 PM
You'll enjoy your time in jail more soon with an escape route in Heights ;)
Cool, I was surprised when i realised heights different have an escape route cuz it looks like it does. look forwed to trying it out. heights is allready my favourite JB map

Jrubzjeknf
4th Sep 2004, 03:09 PM
will heights be adjusted, or am i missing something? :S (already like it now :D:tup: )

ps. Head, I totally forgot about your DM map. I'm sorry. I'll download it right away
/me bangs head against wall for a change

The_Head
4th Sep 2004, 05:20 PM
ps. Head, I totally forgot about your DM map. I'm sorry. I'll download it right away
Good on you, everybody download my maps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: