Terror in the Skies, Again? (online article)

Fomhoire · Jul 16, 2004

This will make you think.

Terror in the Skies, Again?

Cap'n Beeb · Jul 16, 2004

I continued my research by reading an article entitled Arab Hijackers Now Eligible For Pre-Boarding from Ann Coulter (www.anncoulter.com):

Ann Coulter is a psychotic racist bitch who needs to be shot in the mouth repeatedly.

What I experienced during that flight has caused me to question whether the United States of America can realistically uphold the civil liberties of every individual, even non-citizens, and protect its citizens from terrorist threats.

I think this situation can be likened to piracy/anti-piracy; one group strides to protect it's precious software, while the other group strides to break that protection for various reasons. That said, I've found most profiling done in airports to be not only silly (Please sir remove your boots and run them through the x-ray machine, then this bomb machine, and then they'll be swabbed*), but downright stupid (Sir what did you eat in the terminal, did you get it out of a machine or resturant*). Simply put, the system is ineffective, and is one of the main reasons I don't fly.

*These two instances actually happened to me the last time I was in an airport, and I wasn't even going anywhere. I find it funny that they wanted me to take off my boots for a bomb... guess they've never heard of boot-foot stank.

O.S.T · Jul 16, 2004

beerbaron said:
I think this situation can be likened to piracy/anti-piracy; one group strides to protect it's precious software, while the other group strides to break that protection for various reasons. That said, I've found most profiling done in airports to be not only silly (Please sir remove your boots and run them through the x-ray machine, then this bomb machine, and then they'll be swabbed*), but downright stupid (Sir what did you eat in the terminal, did you get it out of a machine or resturant*). Simply put, the system is ineffective, and is one of the main reasons I don't fly.

*These two instances actually happened to me the last time I was in an airport, and I wasn't even going anywhere. I find it funny that they wanted me to take off my boots for a bomb... guess they've never heard of boot-foot stank.

when it's like this,then I think this part can't be true:

No one checked the passports of the Syrian men. No one inspected the contents of the two instrument cases or the McDonald's bag. And no one checked the limping man's orthopedic shoe. In fact, according to the TSA regulations, passengers wearing an orthopedic shoe won't be asked to take it off.

DeeperShade · Jul 16, 2004

Why can't it be true?
Not all airports are laid out the same and not all airports can have the same security measures...

Personally. F*CK racism. If there's a security risk they'd better damned well deal with it. If I were an innocent arab I wouldn't mind passing a security check. I mean, what would I have to hide if I were innocent. The only idiots who'd scream racist are the ones that might well be a security risk in which case: f*ck racism.

O.S.T · Jul 16, 2004

DeeperShade said:
Why can't it be true?
Not all airports are laid out the same and not all airports can have the same security measures...

did anyone here checked in an airport without passport check or check of bags etc?
I doubt that arabs,in america,with cases and a bag woun't get checked

DeeperShade · Jul 16, 2004

You'd be surprised, you really would

But seeing as neither you nor I can conclusively say either way, it's going to be one of those topics that will eventually degrade down to:

"I'm right because I am"
"Ahhh but I'm right because I'm better than you"
"Nuh uh, my POV is always better than yours"
"Nuh uh, you suck"
"Nuh uh, YOU suck"
"YOU!"
"NO YOU!"

And so on and so on....

So, instead, i'm just going to say it was a very interesting read, but I have a drawing to complete

O.S.T · Jul 16, 2004

aha

or you could have just give an example when you were in an airport and you didn't get checked and I would have believed you...

DeeperShade · Jul 16, 2004

I've only been on 1 flight.
My brother has been through airport with only minimal checks (i.e non hand luggage was checked and the good ol' metal detector thingy...

spm1138 · Jul 16, 2004

They also swab the zips on hold-alls.

Presumably if you had been handling explosives or drugs your boots would be a good place to pick up trace elements.

Dunno about the "What have you been eating?" bit though. Very peculiar.

Bean 3:16 · Jul 16, 2004

Responded to that article by firing off an e-mail to their editor.

Dear Editor,

I read the article written by Annie Jacobsen regarding her "experience" and I wished to make several comments.
-When Mrs. Jacobsen decided to make sure that her readers did not think she was a racist, that immediately raises my ire. I'm sure you notice the similar statement "I'm not racist, but..." The fact of the matter is that this incident came from racial profiling. Now, I am not saying Mrs. Jacobsen is a bad person. I understand how she could feel about the situation, especially with all the fear pumped into our society (and maybe rightfully so). Say what you want, but you and most of your readers know I am right, deep down, that they look at Middle Easterners with a certain element of disdain. And why? The same reason you would be afraid of seeing a black man in your suburban neighborhood at night, his only crime being wanting to take a walk. The same reason you speed by the street occupied by a dozen Mexicans, who are just waiting for work. This country lives with a lot of racism, which I realize is in most cases not malicious or purposeful, but it still exists.

I suppose this is a good point to state that I am of Indian descent, as my father is from India. And I experience the effects of this racism regularly. I attend ASU, and sometimes after a long night of educating myself, I go out to get a snack (because as you know, college students are incapable of cooking). Several times I've stopped by police officers, just for walking around at night, getting something to eat (perhaps they confused me with another race). For what? You may say, the police officers are just keeping the peace. On what basis? You know honestly it is because of the color of my skin. Think about how it must feel to be interrogated by the police for nothing at all. Again, you may think I'm complaining too much. But say I pointed to white people, and told everyone "You better watch out...these people are dangerous. You remember Oklahoma City? All these folk here could do it. It took just one white male, all these people are suspects". Why doesn't that happen? I never see that happen. I'd also like to mention that I had two friends (also in college) detained in Florida for 8 hours for nothing but looking like they did, Indian. Now, that's not what the authorities said, as they didn't provide any reason, so I am using my powers of intuition. I'd also like to mention that Middle Easterners do not look like Indians/Pakistanis, nor are the same. India and Pakistan are consistent allies with the U.S., but since we all kinda look the same, I guess it's ok to label us all alike. Using a single experience of hanging out with some Indians and Pakistanis doesn't make you a wordly individual and eligible to pass judgement on Middle Easterners.

-From reading the article, I will venture to say that the Mrs. Jacobsen was quite shaken by the experience, as were her fellow passengers. The suspicious and uncomfortable behavior of the Syrians must have horrible. But think about this. Do you think that those 14 men were totally unaware that the whole plane was staring, pointing, whispering, and crying about them? Do you consider them so nefarious that they were ignorant of that fact, as they were too busy planning evil deeds? In that situation, I wouldn't want to talk to anyone but my friends. In that situation, I'm not going to play Uncle Tom and smile at some lady who I saw whispering and pointing along with everyone else, acting as if were close personal friends. She betrayed that when she decided to exhibit her fear of my friends and I. Maybe they were so shaken by the situation, they did not want to do anything by themselves, for fear of possibly being assualted. I'm not trying to make anybody the villain in this, but you could hardly deny that you would feel extremely uncomfortable if an entire plane was focused on you. I suppose it is a vicious cycle situation

-It turned out that the Syrians had not been doing anything. That McDonald's bag of certain doom probably did contain deadly materials...McDonald's food, fatal the world over. I find it unusual that the author was quick to heed the warnings of the flight attendants, the FBI, etc, but when told that the situation turned out to be nothing but heightened tensions, she disregards those assurances. Why? Didn't everyone survive that flight? What wrongs were committed? What justifies her continued skepticism? She even dares to tell the FAM official what the FBI said, so unsure of the authority that she was quoting. If you don't think the authorities are capable of keeping you safe, why heed their warnings? You can't have it two different ways.

-Mrs. Jacobsen mentioned that nobody checked the Syrians passports. If I recall correctly, wasn't the flight from Detroit to L.A.? Domestic flights don't need to check passports. No editor noticed that little tidbit? Even then, the Syrians had their passports out, with the fabled Arabic writing, so even then, they were ready to be screened.

-A final note. Citing Ann Coulter for anything makes as much sense as asking her for the best car stereo to purchase. Using a sensationalist, and honestly, fear(and ignorance) mongerer, such as her is never wise.

I think this situation is a good example of how fear, media, "terror warnings", and our American culture combined with a series of unconnected circumstances to create a tremendoulsy overblown situation. I still understand how people could feel in that situation, but I can't help but feel consistently feel frustrated by "events" like this.

Sincerely
Robert Srinivasiah

Warm Pudgy · Jul 16, 2004

ive flown several times since 9/11
the only time i ever really got search was when i was wearing my military uniform

AMMAGETSVM · Jul 16, 2004

They always check me. I get that crap in a lot of places though, don't know if it's my ethnicity or not.

Just reading that article made me feel sick, mostly bugged by the feeling of fear and its effects on people. So many news items & editorials etc. are turning us into a nation of pussies.

Fomhoire · Jul 16, 2004

DeeperShade said:
Personally. F*CK racism. If there's a security risk they'd better damned well deal with it. If I were an innocent arab I wouldn't mind passing a security check. I mean, what would I have to hide if I were innocent. The only idiots who'd scream racist are the ones that might well be a security risk in which case: f*ck racism.

You are referring to profiling which isn't racism. The issue is it is an easy scapegoat for people that have something to hide and don't like the fact that they are in a group (Middle Eastern men) which are being looked at closely. They don't like it, so they turn it into a racist issue so they can get away with something they shouldn't be doing.

Sam_The_Man · Jul 16, 2004

DeeperShade said:
I mean, what would I have to hide if I were innocent.

The one sentence that will let Mr Blunkett, John Ashcroft, and their like turn democracies into police states beneath people's noses.

What do you have to hide? Have you never bought illegal drugs? Never disobeyed traffic laws? Do you have no fetishes or kinks that you'd rather not be displayed to the entire Civil Service? Do you believe that every criminal should be thrown out of society forever by the hands of a 'Please list all previous convictions' job application section? Do you believe that the doctors that have declared parents to be child-killers and/or paedophiles to be infallible?

If the answers to any of those questions are 'no', then wake the f**k up.

becoming i · Jul 16, 2004

AI said:
ive flown several times since 9/11
the only time i ever really got search was when i was wearing my military uniform

Ditto. I was frest out of boot camp on the way to AIT when I was searched VERY thoroughly. You know how long it takes to pack a military duffle bag?? It sucks having to repack it in the middle of a busy airport. No respect

.

ElectricSheep · Jul 17, 2004

Fomhoire said:
You are referring to profiling which isn't racism. The issue is it is an easy scapegoat for people that have something to hide and don't like the fact that they are in a group (Middle Eastern men) which are being looked at closely. They don't like it, so they turn it into a racist issue so they can get away with something they shouldn't be doing.

"Middle Eastern Men" are crying 'racism' to get away with something they shouldn't be doing. And what is that? Being a 'Middle Eastern Man'? Meeting with friends who are also 'Middle Eastern Men'? Simply existing and daring to set foot in our country? But I'm sure its their own damn fault for being born on the other side of the world. Its their own damn fault that others who fit in the same 'race' have committed horrible acts against humanity.

I happen to wonder. Have you ever been profiled because of how you look? Have you ever had cops repeatedly follow you around because you seem to fit the stereotype of someone who steals, only to have your 'friends' get away with the shoplifting because nobody pays attention to them?

But its all good. Because even though the vast, vast majority of those who are 'profiled' haven't done anything wrong, I'm sure the law of averages will eventually play out and we'll get at least one of them.

Fomhoire · Jul 17, 2004

ElectricSheep said:
"Middle Eastern Men" are crying 'racism' to get away with something they shouldn't be doing. And what is that? Being a 'Middle Eastern Man'? Meeting with friends who are also 'Middle Eastern Men'? Simply existing and daring to set foot in our country? But I'm sure its their own damn fault for being born on the other side of the world. Its their own damn fault that others who fit in the same 'race' have committed horrible acts against humanity.

I happen to wonder. Have you ever been profiled because of how you look? Have you ever had cops repeatedly follow you around because you seem to fit the stereotype of someone who steals, only to have your 'friends' get away with the shoplifting because nobody pays attention to them?

But its all good. Because even though the vast, vast majority of those who are 'profiled' haven't done anything wrong, I'm sure the law of averages will eventually play out and we'll get at least one of them.

You obviously don't understand profiling. It isn't about stopping every person of a given race. It is about looking for someone that fits a description, and yes, people that have no involvement are going to be stopped and questioned from time to time. Do you have any other suggestions? Perhaps we should wait till someone blows something up before we question them. Does that work for you?

The fact that some law enforcement agencies abuse profiling is an entirely separate issue. It also does not mean a POP (problem oriented policing) on Crack Alley in an ethnic neighbourhood is racist profiling. In the latter instance a good number of the residents and family of people that have been arrested like to cry foul....simply because they don't like being arrested if they have been caught, or involved in the use or distribution of crack.

Sam_The_Man · Jul 17, 2004

Well, personally, if I ever crash out of university and have to become an airport security guard, I'm going to search everyone wearing crucifixes. I mean, religious people are more likely to be terrorists than atheists, right, that's pretty much indisputable. So it's only religious profiling, not discrimination.

Oh, but I forgot, a lot of you are Christians, so it would directly affect you and therefore wouldn't be harmless 'profiling' anymore.

Skorch · Jul 17, 2004

Sam_The_Man said:
Well, personally, if I ever crash out of university and have to become an airport security guard, I'm going to search everyone wearing crucifixes. I mean, religious people are more likely to be terrorists than atheists, right, that's pretty much indisputable. So it's only religious profiling, not discrimination.

Oh, but I forgot, a lot of you are Christians, so it would directly affect you and therefore wouldn't be harmless 'profiling' anymore.

Yea, become the ******* you so strongly hate...hey, your not a moron, so why the hell would you say this?

Fluid · Jul 17, 2004

Color me surprised that anyone would refer to Ann Coulter as a fact source. That crazy tart can't stop raving about the "liberal media conspiracy" and the "evil liberal agenda" of apparently trying to get colored people into power or something :con:

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