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tarquin
1st Jun 2004, 05:58 PM
Here's a couple of shots of the map I've been working on since we released.

It's largely terrain-based, with indoor bases. (The general layout is actually based on some sketches I made back in the JBIII days when Snowdog sent me a fantastic bridge he'd made.)

The bases are at a 90 degree angle, and it would be a big timesaver if I could reflect the terrain in a 45 deg line. If anyone knows of any graphics apps that are capable of editing UEd's 16-bit greyscale... let me know!!! (Tried: Photoshop, PSP, Gimp, G16Ed :( )

TheSpoonDog
1st Jun 2004, 07:46 PM
Just set your texture browser resolution to the full size of your heightmap, and use print screen to copy and paste it into photoshop, do your mirroring, and save it as 8-bit and convert back to 16-bit when in the editor. It just means you will need to go over it with the smoothing tool again.

Birelli
1st Jun 2004, 08:55 PM
Can't the DDS plugin for Photoshop save in 16 bit? I don't know which one of them is the right thing for this but there's a whole slew of 16 bit save options in the drop-down list for me.

tarquin
18th Jun 2004, 10:14 AM
Great news!
I've managed to copy and transform the terrain map in G16ed. ( http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/G16ed )

I'm working on releasing a rough test version, so I can get feedback on gameplay, things like access to bases and weapon and item placement. Watch this space :)

Also moving this thread to the main mapping forum :)

Half_Lunatic
18th Jun 2004, 08:12 PM
Wish I would've found G16ed earlier....I scrapped an entire ONS map cuz I couldnt mirror the terrain :( .

TK v3
19th Jun 2004, 06:14 PM
Interior's looking nice. Can't wait for a playtest.

tarquin
22nd Jun 2004, 09:47 AM
Ok, here's an alpha version for testing: JB-Promontory-025-ALPHA (http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/jailbreak/maps/testing/JB-Promontory-025-ALPHA.zip)

It's built on UT2003, but AFAIK it will work on 2004, you might just see some dark surfaces.

any chance of some oher 2003 players testing it online? or some 2004 people and let me know how it plays :D
I'd particularly like feedback on stuff like item and weapon placement and gameplay.

stuff that will probably change for next version:
* the central curved tunnel will get some decoration... and maybe a lift up to a spot with the Ion Painter (what do you guys think about having a superweapon in this map?)
* the jails need some work -- I'm not sure the elevator idea works, but whatever I do I'll be asking my good pal Rev to help me with some meshes :D
* the scoreboard map will get more interesting
* the arena will get its own terrain and the edges will get tidied up. I'll also put a larger message for players who fall in.
* I'll put a blocking volume all over the top bits so you can't get up there with a TL.

[40oz]-Rippen
22nd Jun 2004, 10:59 AM
Ok, here's an alpha version for testing:

any chance of some oher 2003 players testing it online? or some 2004 people and let me know how it plays :D
I'd particularly like feedback on stuff like item and weapon placement and gameplay.

I dloaded your alpha map, was going to install it on our server but you have a text message that says "THIS MAP IS A TEST VERSION. DO NOT DISTRIBUTE!". Is it still ok if I have it running on my public server?

tarquin
22nd Jun 2004, 12:08 PM
weeeeelllll.....
how public is your public server?
if the people who are playing are from this forum & are aware that it is a TEST version only, and if you PROMISE to remove it once there is a newer version, and if you get them all to come here and give feedback ... then... it should be ok.

Please remember that we don't want general members of the public to play on your server and then say "oh, Jailbreak is crap, there was a map that wasn't like even finished".

[40oz]-Rippen
22nd Jun 2004, 01:13 PM
Good point. I had'nt thought of that. Yes, my server is very public. Hmm... Im thinking of adding a mapvote section titled (Beta/Alpha). That way we all can still play them and even a n00b should know that the maps are not finished. How does that sound?

Also, maybe a requirement on the mappers end since the JB mod has made it so simple to attach a custom loading screen that the alpha/beta needs to state its alpha/beta and the URL for the forum for some feedback. Hey, I think that might actually get more peeps to start coming here too... :) :)

So I'll hold off for now until we see if ya like the idea.

**Silly me, I forgot the mapvote will use the same map prefix. Was hopeing I could create a maplist for that particular vote section. So I cant do my Alpha/Beta mapvote idea. But I do still like the loading screen idea.**

tarquin
24th Jun 2004, 09:54 AM
I've thought about this.
I think the average player won't read a message like that. Experience shows that with a certain class of n00b, no matter HOW LARGE and HOW MUCH IT FLASHES, they still won't read it.

So I'll agree to you putting this alpha map on your server if:
* it's passworded while it's running the map
* the password is in this thread only
* the map is not served to clients connecting (so they have to actually come here and read)

even then, I'm not convinced.

I am rather disappointed that there has been NO FEEDBACK at all on this map. I've made this a public release rather than keeping it in our private Core Dev board to give the community a chance to be involved and give feedback. If that's not going to happen, I might as well move it back :(

brywalker
24th Jun 2004, 10:16 AM
HEY!

I really dig the map, I played it on 2004 and it looked great.

Here are the only things that I can really complain about:

1) Roof texture is too......blah. Changing that to a redish sky would be excellent.

2) Arena might be a little too small. Don't really like the fact that you can fall in. It's easy to get out and there is no element of danger. I was even in there when an arena match was going on and it was no big deal. A "cage" match would be sweet though! Put a clear dome or cage on the top so you can stand there and watch!

3) I am guessing that sentencing isn't finished. They just fall over and fall through the floor when they die. Now would be a perfect time to implement the much asked for "turret gun and missile" death for the sentencing. It would be great for that cell. Mount the guns on the pillars in the corners. Also, because the cell is underground, when there is sentencing the winning team can barely see whats going on because it is below the camera's line of sight.

Otherwise, the map is freaking great! The layout is awesome, the weapon placement is also sweet. I would say you are almost there!

Keep up the good work!

tarquin
24th Jun 2004, 10:41 AM
Thanks!
The roof is just temporary. There'll be a proper sky later -- I like the idea about a red sky, I was going to go for clear blue, but I'll try your idea first now :)

The jails are totally temporary for now. The same goes for the camera.

You're right, falling in doesn't really seem an interesting twist, especially as the bot snipers can't see you to pick you off.

Thanks for the feedback, it's much appreciated! :D

brywalker
24th Jun 2004, 10:57 AM
Not a problem in the least! I love this game, love this gametype and wish I had the skills to do what you guys do. I have the ideas, but no way to execute them. :(

Another idea with that jail sentencing could be to either have the walls close in on them or have the roof slowly come down and crush them. That would be wicked. The actual jail design is good with the rising up and letting them free. Maybe you can have the map to the level "inscribed" into one of the wall textures as other maps have the layout in the jail.

Half_Lunatic
24th Jun 2004, 04:35 PM
Sorry tarquin I play tested this about 3 days ago and never replied.

1)Arena roof should be blocked with something like a cage/gate type thing. That way you can watch without falling in or losing your own view :).

2)Waiting for that skybox :P . The outside lighting also seems kinda white and washed out. I'm guessing you used a sunlight actor. Maybe a "dawn" scene with more orangish lighting. Ambient lighting should make the lighting seem less white easily.

3)BUY 2004 FOR TURRETS ;)

4) There are some white lights around that really have no source. Just looks funny when things get much brighter for no apparent reason. White

5)Bots are fine except for one thing. Indoor there is a lift that slides up and walkways on the side if the lift is gone already. Well the bots stand and wait for the lift instead of taking the alternate route which can be faster.

tarquin
25th Jun 2004, 09:04 AM
Hmm.... I thought I'd taken out those white lights. Whereabouts are they?
I know the sunlight is a bit too strong, I keep toning it down a bit and it's STILL too much.... *sigh* What do you mean by Ambient lighting in the outside area -- I'm not sure about adding some visible light sources and I don't want to increase the polycount out there.

Not sure I can do anything about the lift I'm afraid.

TK v3
25th Jun 2004, 11:51 AM
OK. Installing and testing...

In the meantime, I've had problems with feedback for my map too. Pretty much just focusing on the same problems or the same people posting the same things.

Half_Lunatic
25th Jun 2004, 01:07 PM
Ambient lighting as in the Zone Info's properties. Quick pic of what I just did in about a min. Sunlights were given similar properties too.

tarquin
25th Jun 2004, 01:34 PM
Damn. I was sure I'd changed that before uploading. In my latest version there is no ambient light in any ZoneInfo actor.

-=DARCHANGEL=-
24th Jul 2004, 09:39 PM
Ok, here's an alpha version for testing: JB-Promontory-025-ALPHA (http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/jailbreak/maps/testing/JB-Promontory-025-ALPHA.zip)

It's built on UT2003, but AFAIK it will work on 2004, you might just see some dark surfaces.


Had a test play using UT2004 - its smooth and feels good - very nice concept.

There are slight texture 'ripples' (distant objects waver before coming into view) but that might just be my PC GFX setup.

I like the pit of death (you can jump out tho).

Nice jail idea - stand on team-mate and shoot out.

I notice the lights to the entrance of the blue lock are red and get confusing.

Apart from that it very enjoyable - would be glad to host it when it is released as beta or final.

tarquin
25th Jul 2004, 04:04 AM
I find the frame rate in the middle area, particularly near the jails, drops to about 30 without bots.

Is this ok? Or is it just my ancient hardware? (Duron 800MHz)

-=DARCHANGEL=-
25th Jul 2004, 04:55 AM
I find the frame rate in the middle area, particularly near the jails, drops to about 30 without bots.

Is this ok? Or is it just my ancient hardware? (Duron 800MHz)

Well I run a 2.6gig Athlon GF4Ti (i know big difference) and I get:-

640x480x16 75fps - All those listed are running with 10 bots
640x480x32 70fps

800x600x16 65fps
800x600x32 60fps

1024x768x16 55fps
1024x768x32 45fps

Antialiasing is set to Bilinear and Anistropy was set to 0.

I am not a mapper by any means, but I hope that any of this information is of use to you.

I would love to see this map go 'public' soon. :)

-=DARCHANGEL=-
28th Jul 2004, 12:36 PM
I find the frame rate in the middle area, particularly near the jails, drops to about 30 without bots.

Is this ok? Or is it just my ancient hardware? (Duron 800MHz)

I have now play-tested against 8 human players globally and 4 bots (total 12). There were no negative criticisms apart from 'juddering' near the pit and central walkway.

And one about certain texturing - they found some black areas inthe pits and walls - I hope this is ok for you Tarquin?

All the best and hurry up :lol: We get impatient mate ;)

Birelli
28th Jul 2004, 07:03 PM
Were you guys playing on UT2k4? I'm pretty sure Tarq is mapping with UT2k3, and black meshes are becoming the "classic" symptom of playing a UT2k3 map with UT2k4. Basically for playtesting purposes you can ignore this, as a final release with two different versions won't have this problem.

-=DARCHANGEL=-
29th Jul 2004, 05:39 AM
Were you guys playing on UT2k4? I'm pretty sure Tarq is mapping with UT2k3, and black meshes are becoming the "classic" symptom of playing a UT2k3 map with UT2k4. Basically for playtesting purposes you can ignore this, as a final release with two different versions won't have this problem.

Yes we were using UT2004 patched to latest version 3236.

Thankyou for your response

-=DARCHANGEL=-
29th Aug 2004, 09:18 PM
Were you guys playing on UT2k4? I'm pretty sure Tarq is mapping with UT2k3, and black meshes are becoming the "classic" symptom of playing a UT2k3 map with UT2k4. Basically for playtesting purposes you can ignore this, as a final release with two different versions won't have this problem.

Hi Birelli and Tarquin,

I have been absent for a while (moved house and updated PC/network) and wondered if there is any news on JB-Promontory?

I am still open to host it for you and review it if you so wish.

In anticipation,

tarquin
30th Aug 2004, 04:53 AM
Um. I;ve not done very much work on it lately.

There's a skybox now :)
and an Ion Cannon.

The biggest problem is the jails. They don't really work the way they are, with the lift. I was going to ask Rev to do a fancy lift, but bots don't really like it.

ZedMaestro
30th Aug 2004, 05:55 AM
The problem you have is that the "lift" cannot be pathed as a lift because the bots are already on it, ie you cant place a LiftExit on the mover.

The only other "normal" alternative is to see if the Door actor works. You'll have to make the smallest of ledges to put the door actor on, since a floating one will be pointless. Set the DoorTag to the big lift. The bots may understand that.

There may be another alternative which isn't 2normal" but will definitely work... just gonna check it out and I'll reply when I'm back from work :)

RevBillyG
30th Aug 2004, 06:11 AM
If I'm reading this right (sorry haven't actually looked at the map yet) the bots stand on a lift when they are in jail, the lift moves and the bots escape. Is this correct?

If so, then there's an old trick to fix it. Put a temporary bsp block around the mover, path it then remove the block. Rebuild the map but not the paths.

I had to do this in crusher and I think the same applies in 2k4.

I'll have a look at the map later and see what I can find.

tarquin
30th Aug 2004, 06:31 AM
The bots do exit from jail ok...
but if a player is jailed just as the jail has opened, then they are *underneath* the lift, and they can't get out, and they get squished when the jail closes again. I don't think this is good.

I basically need to rethink the jails entirely, but I don't have any ideas.

RevBillyG
30th Aug 2004, 08:22 AM
Just move the jailed player points as high as possible. Ok, so they'll fall from the spawn point but I don't think anyone will notice.

Either that or is it possible to attach spawn points to an attachmover? I somehow doubt it due to the bot pathing, but it may be worth looking into.

The jails are great, would be a shame to change them too much.

tarquin
30th Aug 2004, 09:56 AM
I've tried attaching playerstarts to a mover in a test map and it works :)

I'll make the changes in Promontory later and have a test of it.

-=DARCHANGEL=-
31st Aug 2004, 01:15 PM
I've tried attaching playerstarts to a mover in a test map and it works :)

I'll make the changes in Promontory later and have a test of it.

If you guys need a beta server - I will be happy to host, compress and re-direct the map for you.

Jrubzjeknf
1st Sep 2004, 07:59 AM
I haven't read the whole freakin thread yet, but I'll try it out. One prob: I can't reach beyondunreal websites, so neither the download system. Another download link or the map in a mail to tvanolst[at]wanadoo[dot]nl would be great. If you could find the time to do that tarq, I'd really appreciate it.

btw I love your map ;)

Jrubzjeknf
1st Sep 2004, 08:02 AM
nm, uploading to geocities website ;). forgot about that :P

tarquin
26th Sep 2004, 10:24 AM
Urg.

I tried attaching the jail playerstarts to the jail movers... and when UEd compiled paths it said:
"PlayerStart bStatic false, but is bStatic by default - map will fail in netplay"

So it looks like I might have to rethink the jails :(

I'll upload a version of this map tonight, as after that I won't be able to work on it for some time.

ZedMaestro
26th Sep 2004, 11:31 AM
Make the playerstarts float then. Thats all you can really do.

Either that or instead of the flat platform rising, maybe you could make an angled platform where 1 or 2 sides rise up to the exit level, but other sides do not rise up. Put the playerstarts on the side that doesnt rise up. Just a thought.

tarquin
26th Sep 2004, 02:51 PM
Here is version 33: http://download.beyondunreal.com/fileworks.php/jailbreak/maps/testing/JB-Promontory-033-BETA.7z

I will not have any time at all to work on this for the next month or so, perhaps even until Christmas.
I think the following still needs to be done:
* general terrain tweaking
* new jails
* sort out the arena (the grille I stuck over it doesn't block and I have no idea why)
* fix the sunlight -- it looks all wrong in places
* add some terrain meshes

I *think* that's about it.

So if someone wants to have a go at doing some of that, post here. :)
Rev, if you read this and you have a brainwave for some nice jails to put in, feel free to make alterations. The jails should stay at that spot in the map,though, because there is the release route all mapped out.

Another thing that concerns me is the polycount & speed. It runs quite badly with bots on my machine (only an 800Mhz though).

TheSpoonDog
26th Sep 2004, 09:17 PM
I think TriggerablePlayerstart is non-static by default... but I have a feeling I've tried attaching them to movers and it didn't work.

Turtillious
27th Sep 2004, 12:58 AM
In case you havent thought of an executiion yet maby you could use an ion cannon because your map has an ion painter on it.

tarquin
27th Sep 2004, 02:38 AM
Interesting idea... I think I saw something about ioncannons being triggerrable

Mychaeel
27th Sep 2004, 04:55 AM
You could always just create your own PlayerStart subclass which has bStatic set to False in its default properties. The new Unreal engine merely doesn't like it when an actor's bStatic instance setting differs from its default setting.

Apart from that I don't see why a movable path node of any kind shouldn't work in the game.

tarquin
29th Sep 2004, 05:34 AM
You could always just create your own PlayerStart subclass which has bStatic set to False in its default properties. The new Unreal engine merely doesn't like it when an actor's bStatic instance setting differs from its default setting.

That's good news! :)

tarquin
10th Mar 2006, 02:34 AM
Does anyone feel like finishing this one?

I've not looked at it for months now, but I think it just needs the jails and the arena fixing.

Vatcilli zeitchef
10th Mar 2006, 10:13 AM
I'd like to fix this one I'm just in a lack of time lately :(
.. If no one offers to help I'd like to do it.
I can see it has a brighter future than Monody.

G.Lecter
19th Mar 2006, 08:53 AM
Haven't time to take another map and finish it right now. I'd like to finish mine asap. But I can test of course... :D
The first thing I did after playing was going to the editor and scaling the whole map down to factor 0.75 (and the terrain from 64 to 48). Tested it after that and it was quite more enjoyable and faster IMO. Only a couple of places in the bases were a bit craped, but nothing terrible... ;)

It has a 'Monody' feel in it. If I had to vote, I'd say Vatcilli would do good stuff with it [although working on 2 similar maps isn't something fun :hmm:]. I will look for a bunch of ideas if someone decides to go on with it... :)

tarquin
19th Mar 2006, 09:58 AM
The first thing I did after playing was going to the editor and scaling the whole map down to factor 0.75 (and the terrain from 64 to 48). Tested it after that and it was quite more enjoyable and faster IMO.

Awwwww.. feck!!!! :(
I made it bigger cos you guys say Poseidon was too cramped.
Reckon I could just scale the terrain, not the bases? I hate texture alignning.
I could shorten the corridors between base and terrain, too. Would that help?

The_Head
19th Mar 2006, 10:49 AM
The textures should be adjusted as required when you scale the map.
It worked fine with Egypt

G.Lecter
19th Mar 2006, 01:49 PM
Yep, just select the whole map in the top wiewport, Tools->Scale Map->Factor=0.75. That should scale all the brushes, meshes, lights and textures properly. The terrain needs to be scaled down manually in TerrainInfo->TerrainScale=48, and the movers will have to be re-keyed. The hallways stayed wide enough (with BlockingVolumes they would be OK). The only parts that felt a bit cramped were the lift shafts, the switch stairs and the Flak thing, which could be easily tweaked... ;)