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Eyegore
30th May 2004, 11:40 PM
Hello all,

I've just finished a new vehicle base on the Apache helicopter. I'm looking for some thoughts and crits.

It can be downloaded here:

http://www.icosometricdesign.com/downloads.htm

Here are a couple screenshots (sorry about posting links, but I keep getting errors on these pages anymore...)

http://www.icosometricdesign.com/Projects.htm

These screenshots are a little old, but the gist is the same.

Helo has:
Primary Fire - single barrel 50cal machine gun - increase damage to 25
Alt-Fire - Just like the Raptor
Increased rise and strafe force to make more responsive
Limited upward pitchlimit to more closely simulate helo simulator.
Included mutator to replace Raptors with the helo

Thanks for taking a look -

Ice-Child
31st May 2004, 06:16 AM
Posted on the other loink. Grabbing it now. Will post back in a few hours.

Rob

Kangus
31st May 2004, 12:40 PM
I like it.... better than the other helicopters that have been released.

and, thank you, thank you a hundred times over for actually giving it a custom destroyed mesh! :D

Eyegore
31st May 2004, 01:45 PM
You are quite welcome:D Glad to hear you like it!

EvilDrWong
31st May 2004, 02:02 PM
Wow, very awesome! :D I like the way it handles, very slick :)

I have lots of suggestions. If you dont follow them you will be kicked off of the internet.

Drop the health, 375-425 feels about right. ATM its a flying tank with a rocket minigun... And could you take the ambientsound off of the projectiles. Its not too bad when you got one or two stray bullets flying, but when you get like a dozen or so it sounds like youre by a waterfall :p Also, its skins need to be finalblend materials otherwise overlays replace the texture for a bit (like when you get hit with the LtG, link, or shock) Since its so rapid fire, id suggest dropping the primary's damage to like 19-21 a shot instead of 25... its a small change, but it means it takes 5 shots instead of 4 to kill those soft little infantry

Kangus
31st May 2004, 02:13 PM
I definitely agree with Doc about dropping the health a bit... after playing with it a bit more, it does seem a bit too tough.... 650 health is excessive for a flying vehicle.

Eyegore
31st May 2004, 02:46 PM
Cool - I'll try 400 for the health and drop the primary damage to 19. I wanted to have the helo have a bit more armor because the Raptor is just too weak - you'll get where your going, then bam!, before you get a chance to do anything, you're done!

I'm right now making finalblend textures...The ambient sound thing - do you mean for the air to air missiles? Or the bulletts?

Thanks!

Eyegore
31st May 2004, 03:47 PM
OK folks,

I made the changes and uploaded it - use the link from my first post to get the new version.

Thanks for the tips!

Eyegore
31st May 2004, 09:37 PM
Fixed a couple problems - the rotors wouldn't rotate in net play from 3rd person views and fixed a problem with the homing missile.

Just use the link in the first post or click on the link below

http://www.icosometricdesign.com/ApacheFTP/Apache-Beta.zip

Kangus
31st May 2004, 09:45 PM
in a couple of the other helicopters I've tried for 2k4, they had it so that if the chopper's blade's clipped something a bit too far in, it would break the blade off and affect flying slightly (as well as chop up anyone who fell into them).... have you considered that? Your chopper's the best of teh one's I've tried, and breaking blades would make it even better :D

EvilDrWong
31st May 2004, 09:49 PM
Hey, kick ass :D i dig it!
You can go ahead and make it all super powerful now :) i got the version im after ;)

Eyegore
31st May 2004, 10:15 PM
Glad yall like it! Evil, be sure to get the version I just posted cuz the one from earlier the rotors don't spin in net play and looks totally stupid.

The blade breaking idea seems cool - but I don't have the programming skills for that :( I'll have to run that by the guy who's helped me and see if he thinks he can (or will) hook that up. Sounds cool!! I'd definately like the blades to waste folks who fall into 'em!! The blades breaking off and affecting the flying definately seems like it'd add another dimension.

Maybe I can hook it up to where if the tail rotor is hit, that could get busted off and the chopper could go into an uncontrollable spin...

Kangus
1st Jun 2004, 12:11 AM
the uncontrollable spin would be awesome..
as to the blades breaking and chopping people up, look at the code for the scorpion... it just requires bones and stuff for each blade.

EvilDrWong
1st Jun 2004, 01:27 AM
the uncontrollable spin would be awesome..
as to the blades breaking and chopping people up, look at the code for the scorpion... it just requires bones and stuff for each blade.
...and a trace each tick per rotor... but, on the upside, thatd also allow us to cut people down with the blades...
now which is more important: performance or style? ;)

Kangus
1st Jun 2004, 01:41 AM
hey... two blades on the scorpion doesn't lag the computer down, does it?

Ice-Child
1st Jun 2004, 01:51 AM
I think everything was covered above. Am grabbing the latest version. owerful, and had a bit much in the way of life. But you say you got that fixed, so I guess I dont really have much to say. Except excellent job so far. I like the looks of it and the way it handles in game. There were just a few little things I seen, like if you bring it down to fast it slams into the ground. It didnt seem to take much damage when I did that. I even tried going from max altitude to slamming it into the groun d surface, and it barely moved the health bar.

Overall, excellent job. You have put allot of effort into it. And it shows the attention to detail.

Keep up the good work,
Rob

Eyegore
1st Jun 2004, 06:11 AM
Thanks Ice-Child -

Cool - looks like I have a bit o work ahead of me.

There are 4 rotor blades, maybe I could set up 2 to be able to break. If there are two or fewer blades, then have the chopper lose altitude and crash...how much would it cost in performance to have it set up for 4 blades?

Also, mccann and I were thinking that it may look a little better to give the chopper more mass. It really gets knocked around when hit, a chopper would be a bit more stable...

Welp - i guess it's off to the lab...

Thanks for all the comments - I'm glad you guys like it, I was kinda worried it might've sucked:)

Ice-Child
1st Jun 2004, 06:18 AM
Nah, dont suck, thats for sure. Works great actually, I do agree it could use a little more mass. Didnt think about that till you mentioned it, but you are right. I mean, not a ton of mass, just enough so that when it does get hit it doesnt fly backwards. At least not as much as it does now. I truthfully didnt see a whole lot that I didnt like about it. Meaning, I liked almost all of it. Just a few minor things here and there, but over all, you did a hell of a job. Works great in game, am gonna give it a test run later this afternoon on our network, and see how it does against live Players. Will let you know how it goes.

Rob

EvilDrWong
1st Jun 2004, 02:53 PM
Yeah, mass!
4 short traces shouldnt be problematic to tell the truth. Vehicles arent ticked if theres noone in it, so its not like itll be checking constantly... worth a shot :) It all really depends on how fun it is imo ;)

Eyegore
1st Jun 2004, 10:48 PM
Well, I made some changes:

Added a tail wing - something I wanted to do for a while. Looks even cooler:)
Set up the traces on two of the rotor blades to break, which affects the handling - got the busted mesh set up and everything - ...but...

Problem 1: I think the chances of someone falling into the rotors while someone is in the helo are about 1 in 4565332445623215667865135435.4 - couldn't test to see if I could chop anyone up.

Problem 2: when you run into a building or something - all the rotors bust up instantly, reducing you to 25% control (I reduce the control stuff by 50% each rotor that breaks off.)

I'm just not sure that it stays quite as much fun - I'll post the version for that 1st thing in the morning and you can let me know what you think - I have to get some sleep now...

But I think I'd like to persue this idea of the tail rotor getting shot off - it may not chop anyone up, but it'll look cool to see someone spinning out of control!!

Any ideas on the rotorblades issues?

Thanks

Kangus
1st Jun 2004, 11:16 PM
well, one idea with the rotors all breaking off at once is that the helicopter gets pushed away from whatever it hit when one breaks... another alternative would be to put in a delay after a blade breaks off before another one can... a third would be to scrap it and just only do the cool stuff with the rear rotor...

EvilDrWong
1st Jun 2004, 11:32 PM
Thats too bad :( cutting people up with rotors sounded like a real slick idea... the tail rotor thing would be cool.. but that also means that youd have to extend the collision all the way back there... which could end up being real weird on some maps with restricted space on the spawn pads...
Dont quit though, this vehicle kicks ass! Hands down the best custom vehicle out there.

mccann
1st Jun 2004, 11:57 PM
You go Eyegore! Nice additions... you'll be a programmer yet!

But, it does sound like the new implementation with the rotor blades breaking off is too fragile (or too realistic) with not enough benefit. The Raptor can slam against anything.

To add to Kangus's suggestions regarding the rotor blades:
1) Up the HitPoints. As the Apache takes damage, things can break off making it more difficult to fly. A blade hitting a wall wouldn't cause the blade to break off right away... only after taking 1/2 the damage would things like that start to happen. (healing bring them back?)
2) Give some kind of warning sound that about to hit with rotor blades... or maybe that they did hit.


Eyegore... something else we might want to do is get the model leaning forward a little more when flying forward full speed. Would you agree? (Let me know if you need any more help with anything.)

EvilDrWong, I didn't notice the ambient sound issue... i'll need to listen for it again. Is that when someone is shooting at you from the Helicopter or when you are in it?

Eyegore
2nd Jun 2004, 06:05 AM
Thanks!

Thanks for the ideas too. And mccann for all the programming and online testing help the other day too.

I think I'll try a damage factor for the rotors - though I can't get them to scale down - at least it looks that way.

The collision thing sounds complicated - maybe that should be incorporated into hit points instead? I'd probably need help with some of that - or are there any other item's that sport the breaking off things functionality I could check out.

I went ahead and posted the latest model (just use the same link) - but don't feel obligated to DL yet, with the rotor issue, I'm working on that now...

Oh, yeah, Mccann - I stiffened up the chopper a bit so it's not so wobbley as well, but that also affected the forward leaning a little - I'll take a look at some of the propertys before heading to work. I'll probably drop an email asking for a little help:) - Also, i fixed the ambient sound issue when I posted the 2nd time - it was the rocket projectiles. When rapid firing for extended period of time, you would get this deep rumbling sound - I just turned it off. Much better.

Postal
2nd Jun 2004, 04:59 PM
how about a delay between breaking blades, you break one, then you cant break the other till 2 sec later, or something like that

Eyegore
2nd Jun 2004, 07:49 PM
YEEEEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

I got the tail to bust off!
I got the tail to bust off!
I got the tail to bust off!

YEEEEEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

EvilDrWong
2nd Jun 2004, 07:56 PM
showoff

mccann
2nd Jun 2004, 10:19 PM
Awesome!!! that will be cool!

Eyegore
2nd Jun 2004, 10:49 PM
OK folks - I just uploaded the latest version. This includes:

Tail breaks off when health drops below 300 (increased health to 800 so there'd be time to use the chopper before it gets squirrely on you. Maybe I should drop to 700?)

Added wires to the mesh where tail breaks off (see screens posted)
When tail breaks off, TurnDamping goes to -20, which causes uncontrollable spin.

I want to put some particle effects coming out of the tail stump to finish off the effect, but other than that and maybe some minor tweaking, she's about done.

Use the link from the first post to DL. Here are some screens...

Eyegore
3rd Jun 2004, 11:36 PM
OK,

Now when the tail breaks off, sparks and smoke come out. In addition, because the copter is spinning out of control, so does your view, thus you can't really hit anything. About all you can do is hope to get to a low enough altitude and bail out. I also adjusted the forward pitch when throttling and decreased the health to 700 - that gives you 400 health worth of fighting power.

I'll be zipping the final version up tomorrow and will let you know when the final version will be available.

:)

Fallen Angel
4th Jun 2004, 08:40 AM
this is very very good. But you should try implementing some of the lil stuff from BigCheese's Apache. e.g Rotars snap. but I pregfer this a helluva lot more than the other one =O this one is sexeh

Kangus
4th Jun 2004, 12:42 PM
hmmm... the tail snapping works nice, but its now feels like its suffering from the "way too much health" syndrome again :/ I know that technically its still only like 400 of usable health, but 300 health of uselessness seems a bit much
maybe if you take both thresholds down by like 100 health? or maybe you take the max health down by 200, and make it so the tail only breaks off if the chopper takes a heavy damage hit(of say over 50 damage or more) once it gets below the 200 or 300 threshold... or maybe only if the hit is taken from the rear?
Just thinking outloud here...

Eyegore
4th Jun 2004, 01:03 PM
I know what you mean, but I think for me that maybe bacause I made the model and stuff, that I want to be able to see the broken copter in action cuz it's so much fun. I have to think about the practical playability of it, which is where you know you guys come in. I'll bring down both threshholds by 100 points and the heavy damage thing, like you suggested. I tried to get the thing to be only a rear hit, but I don't understand the collision well enough to do that yet. Do vehicles only have spherical collision boundaries?

It may mean less time to see the glory of my work (if that's what it can be called:)), but if it means better gameplay, then that's what it'll be!

I haven't yet uploaded the latest version, with the sparks and spinning view and all, but I think the entire project will be done tonite, so I'll upload it then.

Thanks for the crits!

I'm going to enter this in the MSUC for the Vehicle category, doubt it'll win, but after, I'm going to work on a first person model - you know, cockpit and all. I was also thinking it might be cool to add a radar to show where other enemy craft may be.

Just thinking out loud...

EvilDrWong
4th Jun 2004, 04:47 PM
vehicles can have either cylinder or primitive collision... and from the looks of it the apache has cylinder collision. Heres a quick bit thatll let you break off the tail only on a rear hit

HitAngle=(Rotation.Yaw - rotator(HitLocation - Location).Yaw) & 65535;

if((HitAngle<44768&&HitAngle>20768))
log("buttsechs");
stick that in the TakeDamage and tweak the values there till youre content... should work just fine.

Eyegore
4th Jun 2004, 08:16 PM
Cool - got it working! - Should be done tonite with the whole project!

Kangus
4th Jun 2004, 09:15 PM
I'm going to enter this in the MSUC for the Vehicle category, doubt it'll win, but after, I'm going to work on a first person model - you know, cockpit and all. I was also thinking it might be cool to add a radar to show where other enemy craft may be.

Just thinking out loud...Cool, I really think it'll spruce it up to perfection if you add that cockpit model. In fact I'm just generally glad you plan to keep working at this thing until its done instead of abandoning after MSUC :D

ROFL 451
4th Jun 2004, 09:57 PM
instead of abandoning after MSUC :D

My Suck Up Crap?

Eyegore
5th Jun 2004, 12:25 AM
Yeah, the first person cockpit models are cool with the guages and lights and stuff. It'll be good Modelling and Photoshop practice:)

Fallen Angel
5th Jun 2004, 08:51 AM
=O is there such a thing as Surpassing perfection?

If there is, this will be it.

Eyegore
6th Jun 2004, 02:22 PM
Here are links to screens and download of the version submitted to MSUC.

Screens:
http://www.icosometricdesign.com/Projects.htm
DL:
http://www.icosometricdesign.com/downloads.htm

Still working on some other stuff, 1st person view mesh and other minor tweaks.

Then onto other projects...

Wulff
13th Jun 2004, 09:00 AM
Doesn't seem like the damtypes have been set up right, *whistles*.

Eyegore
13th Jun 2004, 09:08 AM
Doesn't seem like the damtypes have been set up right, *whistles*.


Care to eloborate?

Wulff
13th Jun 2004, 12:19 PM
Care to eloborate?

F3 my boy, kill some and press F3. What damtype relates to is how your kills are credited, simply said, you kill someone in a tank, the menu(F3) says you killed someone with a tank, or you killed someone with a rocketlauncher, the menu(F3) shows you killed someone with the rocketlauncher.

Eyegore
13th Jun 2004, 03:38 PM
Why so it does -- I hardly ever look at that so I never thought to check that out:)

Thanks for the tip - when the next version is released, that'll definately be on the list!!!

Wulff
13th Jun 2004, 03:53 PM
Why so it does -- I hardly ever look at that so I never thought to check that out:)

Thanks for the tip - when the next version is released, that'll definately be on the list!!!

You also need to change some stuff with the RocketProj too, smaller drawscale, plus a greater speed. :D

Fallen Angel
14th Jun 2004, 12:17 PM
I'm not sure if you ment this, but when fireing a rocket, a minigun tracer is made, as the rocket is fired. Intentional?

Eyegore
14th Jun 2004, 02:21 PM
Yeah, looks like I need to reiterate that I'm not a coder:) I can do a little, but I'd rather spend the time modelling. McCann really helped me out a lot, but I don't want to impose for anymore help with this model - I know everybody here is pretty busy and it'd be a good experience for me to figure out. I have put the tracer issue in the known bugs and am trying to work out a solution for that (though that may never come...)

I also fixed the damtype problem. Now when you make kills you get proper Atakapa credit:)

Right now I'm really struggling to get a frickin hudoverlay to display my cockpit mesh in the first person...to no avail. I can't tell what the heck is going on with that; I have spent about 12 hours on that alone and still have no overlay. According to my logs, I'm spawning the mesh, but I can't see it. Anyway, I'll try for a few more then either ask someone to do it, or just forget about it for now and come back to it later...

At anyrate, the overlay is about the last thing I'm going to work on for this model, then I really have to work on something else - I'd really like to learn to paint the cool metal skins - but I have no idea how they do that...

Wulff
14th Jun 2004, 06:34 PM
Yeah, looks like I need to reiterate that I'm not a coder:) I can do a little, but I'd rather spend the time modelling. McCann really helped me out a lot, but I don't want to impose for anymore help with this model - I know everybody here is pretty busy and it'd be a good experience for me to figure out. I have put the tracer issue in the known bugs and am trying to work out a solution for that (though that may never come...)

In case you forgot, I also did that part of the code, a bit of a bodged up job, I must confess, here's a solution, smaller, and faster, that should probably make sure you'll never see the primary projectile again, just overwrite it, and recompile.. *whistles*

//=============================================================================
// rocket.
//=============================================================================
class RocketProj extends Projectile;

var bool bRing,bHitWater,bWaterStart;
var int NumExtraRockets;
var xEmitter SmokeTrail;
var Effects Corona;
var byte FlockIndex;
var RocketProj Flock[2];

var() float FlockRadius;
var() float FlockStiffness;
var() float FlockMaxForce;
var() float FlockCurlForce;
var bool bCurl;
var vector Dir;

replication
{
reliable if ( bNetInitial && (Role == ROLE_Authority) )
FlockIndex, bCurl;
}

simulated function Destroyed()
{
if ( SmokeTrail != None )
SmokeTrail.mRegen = False;
if ( Corona != None )
Corona.Destroy();
Super.Destroyed();
}

simulated function PostBeginPlay()
{
if ( Level.NetMode != NM_DedicatedServer)
{
SmokeTrail = Spawn(class'RocketTrailSmoke',self);
Corona = Spawn(class'RocketCorona',self);
}

Dir = vector(Rotation);
Velocity = speed * Dir;
if (PhysicsVolume.bWaterVolume)
{
bHitWater = True;
Velocity=0.6*Velocity;
}
Super.PostBeginPlay();
}

simulated function PostNetBeginPlay()
{
local RocketProj R;
local int i;
local PlayerController PC;

Super.PostNetBeginPlay();

if ( FlockIndex != 0 )
{
SetTimer(0.1, true);

// look for other rockets
if ( Flock[1] == None )
{
ForEach DynamicActors(class'RocketProj',R)
if ( R.FlockIndex == FlockIndex )
{
Flock[i] = R;
if ( R.Flock[0] == None )
R.Flock[0] = self;
else if ( R.Flock[0] != self )
R.Flock[1] = self;
i++;
if ( i == 2 )
break;
}
}
}
if ( Level.NetMode == NM_DedicatedServer )
return;
if ( Level.bDropDetail || (Level.DetailMode == DM_Low) )
{
bDynamicLight = false;
LightType = LT_None;
}
else
{
PC = Level.GetLocalPlayerController();
if ( (Instigator != None) && (PC == Instigator.Controller) )
return;
if ( (PC == None) || (PC.ViewTarget == None) || (VSize(PC.ViewTarget.Location - Location) > 3000) )
{
bDynamicLight = false;
LightType = LT_None;
}
}
}

simulated function Landed( vector HitNormal )
{
Explode(Location,HitNormal);
}

simulated function ProcessTouch (Actor Other, Vector HitLocation)
{
if ( (Other != instigator) && (!Other.IsA('Projectile') || Other.bProjTarget) )
Explode(HitLocation, vector(rotation)*-1 );
}

function BlowUp(vector HitLocation)
{
HurtRadius(Damage, DamageRadius, MyDamageType, MomentumTransfer, HitLocation );
MakeNoise(1.0);
}

simulated function Explode(vector HitLocation, vector HitNormal)
{
local PlayerController PC;

PlaySound(sound'WeaponSounds.BExplosion3',,2.5*TransientSoundVolume);
if ( EffectIsRelevant(Location,false) )
{
Spawn(class'NewExplosionA',,,HitLocation + HitNormal*20,rotator(HitNormal));
PC = Level.GetLocalPlayerController();
if ( (PC.ViewTarget != None) && VSize(PC.ViewTarget.Location - Location) < 5000 )
Spawn(class'ExplosionCrap',,, HitLocation + HitNormal*20, rotator(HitNormal));
// if ( (ExplosionDecal != None) && (Level.NetMode != NM_DedicatedServer) )
// Spawn(ExplosionDecal,self,,Location, rotator(-HitNormal));
}

BlowUp(HitLocation);
Destroy();
}

simulated function Timer()
{
local vector ForceDir, CurlDir;
local float ForceMag;
local int i;

Velocity = Default.Speed * Normal(Dir * 0.5 * Default.Speed + Velocity);

// Work out force between flock to add madness
for(i=0; i<2; i++)
{
if(Flock[i] == None)
continue;

// Attract if distance between rockets is over 2*FlockRadius, repulse if below.
ForceDir = Flock[i].Location - Location;
ForceMag = FlockStiffness * ( (2 * FlockRadius) - VSize(ForceDir) );
Acceleration = Normal(ForceDir) * Min(ForceMag, FlockMaxForce);

// Vector 'curl'
CurlDir = Flock[i].Velocity Cross ForceDir;
if ( bCurl == Flock[i].bCurl )
Acceleration += Normal(CurlDir) * FlockCurlForce;
else
Acceleration -= Normal(CurlDir) * FlockCurlForce;
}
}

defaultproperties
{
FlockRadius=12.000000
FlockStiffness=-40.000000
FlockMaxForce=600.000000
FlockCurlForce=450.000000
Speed=500000.000000
MaxSpeed=500000.000000
Damage=90.000000
MomentumTransfer=50000.000000
MyDamageType=XWeapons.DamTypeRocket
ExplosionDecal=XEffects.RocketMark
LightType=LT_Steady
LightEffect=LE_QuadraticNonIncidence
LightHue=28
LightBrightness=255.000000
LightRadius=5.000000
DrawType=DT_StaticMesh
StaticMesh=WeaponStaticMesh.RocketProj
CullDistance=7500.000000
bDynamicLight=True
AmbientSound=WeaponSounds.RocketLauncher.RocketLauncherProjectile
LifeSpan=8.000000
AmbientGlow=96
FluidSurfaceShootStrengthMod=10.000000
SoundVolume=255
SoundRadius=100.000000
bFixedRotationDir=True
RotationRate=(Roll=50000)
DesiredRotation=(Roll=30000)
ForceType=FT_Constant
ForceRadius=100.000000
DrawScale=0.00000001
ForceScale=5.000000
}

Eyegore
17th Jun 2004, 02:11 PM
Thanks Wulff!

Fallen Angel
3rd Jul 2004, 06:21 AM
Congratulations for making it to the finalists Eye. =)

Postal
3rd Jul 2004, 08:24 AM
Congrats

Eyegore
3rd Jul 2004, 08:44 AM
Thanks - I really wasn't expecting anything to happen. I'm just glad people like it enough to even bother to play with it.

Fallen Angel
3rd Jul 2004, 05:05 PM
always use it ^_^