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Zlal
29th May 2004, 08:19 AM
Just noticed some critisism over Here (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385080). Maybe a little n00bish, but i do think thank we need to stamp out insults.

Whatcha think?

MassChAoS
29th May 2004, 11:08 AM
I think the thread is fine...

luquado
29th May 2004, 12:26 PM
Thread's more than fine, it's resolved itself now.

AMmayhem
29th May 2004, 02:07 PM
Just noticed some critisism over Here (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385080). Maybe a little n00bish, but i do think thank we need to stamp out insults.

Whatcha think?

It does seem our site has members that do come off harsher than necessary. The focus should be more on constructive critisism, not sure how well it could be patrolled... :hmm:

Hourences
29th May 2004, 02:10 PM
no one said anything harsh other then the author himself

Zlal
29th May 2004, 02:58 PM
True, but Its a problem. Perhaps we are a little harsh.

MassChAoS
29th May 2004, 04:33 PM
I think underrating is much better than over rating. However, the review and review ratings are an opinion and not every person will agree.

Ironblayde
29th May 2004, 09:00 PM
I see they're not there now, but the author did make at least two comments on his map. The first was right before mine, where he said that he would keep on making Assault maps, but would never submit them to NaliCity again because the site is "too upsetting." Personally, I think that reflects an unwillingness to accept criticism, because the points people raised about the map were correct; the map has very serious, even fatal balance issues. The "insulting" comments didn't come until after that, and after the author said that hundreds of people had downloaded it and were running it on their servers. Perhaps KingMango's comments were a little harsh, but I don't think they were undeserved. (But then, I'm not the most tactful individual myself...) I think we're generally fine, provided authors are willing to accept critical viewpoints. I suppose it can't hurt to be vigilant though.

FreakinMeany
31st May 2004, 03:18 PM
It does seem our site has members that do come off harsher than necessary. The focus should be more on constructive critisism, not sure how well it could be patrolled... :hmm:
It's been this way since I've been around (early NC2 days) and will probably never change. In my opinion, NC isn't the place for mappers just starting out to showcase their maps - at least, not in the form of submitting them for review and discussion.

NaliCity a land of experienced mappers who are better critics than instructors who occassionally send some very funny (http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=6182) mixed (http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=7002) signals (http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=3987) :) (oh no, not that map again). Artistic types, especially those just starting out, often lack the faculty to extract constructive critisism while filtering out the crap.

Don't get me wrong - I've always loved NC. Despite all the sometimes negative attributes, I don't know if it's wise to police comments. People have their opinions and "patrolling" them is only going to piss those particular individuals off ...

... and then we'll all be without all this free entertainment :D

[edit]

Ahhhh... Scimitar. I think I'll go play a round :tup: Damn I miss UT LAN parties at work :(

Hourences
31st May 2004, 05:55 PM
almost all oldskool mappers + a lot of current good ones came from NC, they are good and they havent commited suicide yet
yet they started, as a noob, at nalicity
why is it that they all survived perfectly ?
you are blaming things that have nothing to do with it, its not about a review or a comment, its about the guy himself how he handles any form of critism
some people just cant take any form of criticism, theyll never ever become a good mapper. you may be very polite to such guy at your review site but once this guy steps out in to the "wide internet world" hell get completely ripped apart anyhow... and then or he gets utterly ego and starts flaming everything, or he still quits mapping...
i saw this happen a dozen of times, you cant save them from critism, youll only make it worse

can you link me to a review where there is non constructive and even harsh critism ?

alot of people seem to have a problem with what they call "cristism but no talking about how to make it better"
if someone says "the blue light is really ugly" then that already indicates the cause and the action that has to be taken, which is "remove the damn blue light"
more examples:
"the map really lacks things lighting wise, its way too one colour like"
"the floorplan was very room corridor room like"

we also only moderate comments, just like everyone else moderates their forums
whats weird ?
if some guy starts to talk racist stuff in the comments we cant do anything about it ?

and any problem with our joke maps ? things like these live the place up and give it personality

Ulukai
31st May 2004, 08:15 PM
Shirley Bassey Wins (It's history repeating, seeee?)

ps BangOut, DOM-Britney needs clearly enhancing with Janet Jackson nipples. If that offends someone, great.

Zlal
31st May 2004, 08:26 PM
that could be a fun easter egg. you have to shoot justin to reveal the nipple.

Manticore
31st May 2004, 11:07 PM
1. I am not a mapper, but I am a map collector.

2. In my opinion I don't see what the issue is with NC reviewers being "harsh", "tough", "picky"; whatever. From reading reviews I actually learn something about how maps are constructed and how Ued works.

3. The real problem with NC is that people who download and comment are at the mercy of mappers who submit beta versions, non-operating maps or just downright rubbish and then expect people like me to boost them as if they are all professional game designers doing commercial, release quality work. As usual, whether it is NC or at any site, you are always someones friend until you "can" their map then your opinion isn't worth a pinch of s#@t. Then you get mappers leaving comments for you under their submission where you basically get verbally abused, and sometimes, sworn at.

4. Then there's those many instances where mappers' friends obviously boost their ratings beyond what is reasonable for the map, or at worst, mappers log on under a different handled and boost their own work.

5. When maps in commercial release or community work (such as CBP's) are
used as a qualitative "benchmark" a lot of mappers should be embarrassed. Either their stuff doesn't work, has technical issues re:build or is not original and is, at best, a clone of their own work or, at worst, someone elses'.

6. I'm not saying I (or anyone else) shouldn't have an opinion or that my opinion is necessarily "right" as opposed to someone elses'. I'm going to stop leaving ratings and just leave a comment from now as, obviously, too many mappers are so damned precious about their "work" that they can't handle it.

7. None of the above means I'm not grateful for all the great (and sometimes incredibly average) free maps I get to explore. The good ones I keep and get played over again and again. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?

8. So, NC reviewers, (in my opinion) don't go changin'! Mappers: if you can't stand the heat of the flames maybe you shouldn't submit....

Oh by the way, reviewers and/or admins., if you don't like me retaliating against this absurd behaviour which is happening in comments just ban me. I will stand up for my right (as well as other's) to have an opinion but will happily cop it sweet if my behaviour is, in your opinion, too over the top.

Enough said, thanks...............

AMmayhem
1st Jun 2004, 12:20 AM
Sounds like a reasonable, (well, for lack of better words), rant to me Manticore. :tup:

Though I would suggest still having the rating in your comments. It does help us in some way. I'd rather dig through maps that have an average user rating, than a bunch of blank ratings. And besides, why be worried about offending someone with your opinions?

Manticore
1st Jun 2004, 01:01 AM
And besides, why be worried about offending someone with your opinions?

Thanks for the um, vote of confidence.

I don't mind being offensive and am probably an expert at it (aaaaahahahahahaaaa).

...........as long as we all realise that we are entitled to our opinions everything will be just Jim Dandy.

The comments section seems to be bogged down at the moment with retaliatory comments (and I include myself in being the source of some of those comments) rather than people at least accepting what is written about their work and accepting others' opinions. I think Hourences said something here about keeping comments constructive, or at least honest.....

Or to quote 'Mars Attacks': "Why can't we all just get along?"

End of rant.

Ironblayde
1st Jun 2004, 02:00 AM
Though I would suggest still having the rating in your comments.
I agree. Users who are searching through the map database and wondering what to download can only be helped by commentators like you, Manticore, who are willing to take a more realistic view of maps, as opposed to those who hand out 9s and 10s like candy to every map that has something pretty in it. Don't let fools discourage you. :)

Zlal
1st Jun 2004, 05:48 AM
It's not even pretty half the time :)

Balton
1st Jun 2004, 08:24 AM
Thanks for the um, vote of confidence.

I don't mind being offensive and am probably an expert at it (aaaaahahahahahaaaa).

...........as long as we all realise that we are entitled to our opinions everything will be just Jim Dandy.

The comments section seems to be bogged down at the moment with retaliatory comments (and I include myself in being the source of some of those comments) rather than people at least accepting what is written about their work and accepting others' opinions. I think Hourences said something here about keeping comments constructive, or at least honest.....

Or to quote 'Mars Attacks': "Why can't we all just get along?"

End of rant.
Keep up your comments, it's people like Sandorski who really ruin the comments section. If I see this ******* handing out anymore 7's because the author put alot of effort into ****ty maps I'll virtually harrass him...

Ironblayde
1st Jun 2004, 03:32 PM
It's not even pretty half the time :)
Too true. :)

Manticore
1st Jun 2004, 07:37 PM
Thanks for all the above on all counts........

I personally think a lot of map trolls (such as myself) take all the free maps they get for granted. That's one of the issues any commentator should keep in mind; that we get all these maps AND use of this site for free and should be grateful considering how we all lurv this game so much.....

Quality, as we all know, will always vary between 0 and 10. Sometimes minus ratings would possibly be good. (Did I say that? I should delete that last bit....)

FreakinMeany
2nd Jun 2004, 12:35 AM
Not sure who this was directed at, but since it came after my post...


you are blaming things that have nothing to do with it, its not about a review or a comment, its about the guy himself how he handles any form of critism
Nope. I am saying the same thing as you - that most newbie mappers don't know how to handle criticism. The oldschool mappers survived because they a) had natural abilities and b) able to take criticism either good or bad.


can you link me to a review where there is non constructive and even harsh critism ?I wasn't specifically talking about the reviews, which I usually find right on the money. It's the comments where the harsh stuff is, but that's to be expected. From the newbie mapper's point of view though the comments probably have more weight since they're usually present long before a review and therefore reflecting NC negatively in their mind.


and any problem with our joke maps ? things like these live the place up and give it personality
Well of course they do :) :p They're awesome! :tup: (I wish there were more)

While I can understand a perfect 10 score on a joke map... A newbie mapper might see those reviews/comments, think that it's actually a good map and then bitch cuz there equally as 'jokey' got a crap score -- which is the point I was trying to make :)

Hourences
2nd Jun 2004, 04:26 AM
we cant help it either if people comment flamy in the comments, you said yourself we shouldnt police them,
it just happens on online things, certainly on sites as nalicity where it on 1 side involves the hardwork and effort and proud of the author, and on the other side a very wide community, people come from everywhere, totally dont know eachother and thus just say more whatever they think

if you have ideas how to get them to comment better tell us :)

and i cant help it if some guy out there doesnt understand a really noticable joke, thats his problem not mine :)

FreakinMeany
2nd Jun 2004, 01:08 PM
if you have ideas how to get them to comment better tell usSit them into a small room and force them to listen to It's a small world! (http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/smworld.htm) for a month...

That oughta do it :D

Ironblayde
2nd Jun 2004, 01:17 PM
Sit them into a small room and force them to listen to It's a small world! (http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/smworld.htm) for a month...

That oughta do it :D
I have no idea what that would do to a human being, but I doubt the effect would be positive in any way. :)

luquado
2nd Jun 2004, 05:38 PM
I have no idea what that would do to a human being, but I doubt the effect would be positive in any way. :)
You turn into the Enzyte man.
http://images.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/health/_photos/2002-04-18-inside-enzyte.jpg

FreakinMeany
3rd Jun 2004, 12:52 AM
ROFL! :lol: