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View Full Version : DM-Phatman UT2004. An insite exclusive!


barballs
17th May 2004, 04:07 AM
Well after the success (so far) of DM-1on1-TheCore and a brief respite, I am back to the grinder! ;) After all the support I got from Insite's community I've decided to release some shots of the new map I am working on. A beta will be uploaded here shortly. In the meantime here are some screens for y'all. Am looking foreward to any feedback you may have.

The first build is here! Very few static meshes at the moment. More are on the way. This build is primarily to get feedback about the flow of the lavel, which geometry-wise, wont change too much.

The level is has full bot support.
Major items and initial weapon placement done aswell.

Download 100% working Build 01 (http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~barballs/files/DM-build01-phatman.rar)

Looking forward to your feedback!

barballs
17th May 2004, 04:09 AM
Second batch of screens here:

barballs
17th May 2004, 04:19 AM
Below are the last few screenshots and a shot of how the bots play on the level.

I have a technical question about bot control. Is there anyone who knows how to get bots to wall dodge. I have them trying but they seem to try and double jump instead.

Under JumpDest: I have
bForceDoubleJump = false.

Under JumpSpot I have
BDodgeUp = true and,
bCanDoubleJump = true

Is there anything else I can do? do I need to indicate a surface to dodge off of or something? Is it even possible?

BobTheDog
25th May 2004, 06:04 PM
Now I understand better the mapmaking process. My problem is that I tend to try and perfect EVERY little section before I move on ^_^

Yah, layout looks good. Dunno about the botpath thing tho... Gui might be able to help ya out.

Corion
26th May 2004, 01:06 AM
I love the stucco look :0)

barballs
26th May 2004, 07:04 AM
Pre-alfa for you to play around in coming tomorrow. There are not many changes from these pictures but the bot flow is sweet and you should get a feel for how the level will play and help me make the map a better playing experience for all of you! :)

I've been given inspiration for another idea so this map will lead the way to my best map yet!!! Hopefully. Back to the topic at hand - expect to see a nice big visual change to part of this map soon ;)

barballs
27th May 2004, 03:47 AM
Alfa build released. Just use the link in the first post!

spec_x
27th May 2004, 11:27 AM
Woooo!!!

Corion
28th May 2004, 01:28 AM
Um... Isn't it spelled alpha? Alpha, beta, etc ...

Maybe you're thinking of Alfalfa (hay). And the last thing that was built with alfalfa was blown down by a long-winded wolf. ;)

barballs
28th May 2004, 03:06 AM
Yes, it is spelt A L P H A. But in the effort to make sure this page loads at it's quickest I merged the ph into an f to save a byte. Anyways, english lessons aside, the proper al"ph"a ;) is being uploaded as I type. Download link will be re-activated shortly thereafter.

spec_x
28th May 2004, 08:53 AM
lol.......sure ;)

barballs
28th May 2004, 09:34 AM
u see it IS done!

So there Mr. SmartyPants :P lol

*hopes it works this time!*

Download from link on first post.

BobTheDog
28th May 2004, 11:05 AM
Calling it an Alfa just gives it some extra flair -_^

Corion
28th May 2004, 09:49 PM
Got any updated screenies? :0o

Gui
29th May 2004, 07:48 AM
A cool layout but too much corridors IMO: attempt to make them wider wherever you can to avoid too much spamming... Only one power-up is usually not enough and make the map too much easy to control: a minimum of two is required, knowing the fact that the Amp is less and less appreciated by competitive players a mini-Shield may be welcome (presupposed you want to orient your map on gameplay of course...): what I'd do personnally would be to displace the Flak and Link to a different location and replace on of them with the 100a and the other with one 50a.

The Flak and the Link rooms are very similar in layout and this brings some sort of symmetry into the map, something which may reduce the interest of the level. I'm not very fond of these slanted planks against the walls behind which you can easily get stuck: such 'shortcut' has been implemented in a better way in other maps, like DOM-ScorchedEarth for example... Lift-jumps don't enhance flow and there's slightly too much pills IMO, also make sure to use pills and vials in different numbers from one location to the other to help players locate the opponent more easily.

A good start anyway: keep at it :tup:

barballs
29th May 2004, 09:10 AM
am just in getting some custom textures I took photos of put onto CD for work on the map :) I was thinking someting similar the past week and I have another layout in the works. I'll post that up to see which you perfer and progress from there.

I definatly agree about the one power up. Thats why I made the lift shafts so high. I was going to but the 50 shield in one and the quad in the other. However I thought this was a bit much so I stopped that design. Hence, just normal lifts (for now).

Relocating flak and link is not an option, simply for this reason: they are on the same plane. They would be only 4 dodges away from each one. A good player could still armour run the level. But your idea is right. Instead i'd have to move the RL and the Minigun and have the shileds there. Put the more powerfull weapons with the 50 shield and the "weaker" weapons near the 100 shield. That sound better?

Anyways I'll upload the new layout i was talking about when its playable for you to compare. Oh! By the way, ANY ideas how to get bots to wall dodge?? they try but just cant seem to make it, but I think they are just double jumping the whole time. if you see my post above you will see what I have tried.

Gui
29th May 2004, 01:04 PM
Bots being stupid, there's good chances that you'll never be able to make them this. A friend of mine already tried some AIscripts things wihtout any success, so I think you should give up on this and focus on more important aspects of your design...

Your idea of weps relocation sounds good. You can also consider the possibility to put a 50a in the same room than the Link and the Flak, instead of one 100a and one 50a, like this you'll not need to displace these weps but you'll still get 2 PUs in your map...

barballs
30th May 2004, 07:48 AM
Something like you did on Katath with the 2 50s? (very sweet job, as usual btw) I was thinking of that but we'll see how it plays with the new version (Asymetrical version).

Also, I was thinking about the bot problem a lot because I REALLY want the bots to be able to do this. I believe I've found a way. Its a dirty filthy cheat but if it works, I wont care! :)

Its the same approach as your friend, kinda, but instead of scripted sequence I've got a better plan! It involves coding a new bot network node that will act as the scripted sequence.

*fingers crossed*

Got any updated screenies? :0o
None yet as there is nothing updated visually. Dont you worry I'll be uploading pics as soon as I progress :)

barballs
31st May 2004, 09:45 AM
Well I've done it! Its a filthy dirty hack, but with some custom UC files I've managed to get bots jumping the distance. Gameplay is improved 100% I'm now in danger of being owned on my own map by a bot!! :eek:


About the lift jumping: I've decided to kill two birds with one stone so-to-speak. In an effort to make the flak & link rooms different, I've added the some extra geometry and made it so the lift jumping tactic can be employed. See the screens below.

The Item placement has been fiddled with too. The 100 Shield has been removed as have the shock rifles. The place where the shield was is now a shock rifle and the 2 shock rifle positions are now two 50 shield positions. By the way, how do I change the settings so that the add up and not just keep to a max of 50? I mean I pick up one and it gives me 50 armour. When I get over to the other, I can pick it up but shiled strength stays at 50. Is that the way its ment to be?

I would have placed the new build up now but I am unsure how to Import the UC files needed for the bots jumping ability into my map. I'd rather not have to have it as a .u file in the system folder. I suppose it doesnt matter either way. Any ideas?

I might just remove the uc untill you guys can test the new flow and decide if it is better. Till then I'll leave you with a few screens.

barballs
1st Jun 2004, 04:59 AM
The new alternative build "sans" the bot magic is now available. Please let me kow you you think this flow is better.

It is still possible to armour run. The quickest I've managed to get from shield to shield was 8 seconds. Even with that there should be some interesting battles with this flow.

The mid secion as had a few changes.
- Alternative method for geting to the main bridge.
- Modification to the platforms in preparation for the work to take place in middle ground

Anyways I hope this is better.

Download Build 2! (alternative flow) (http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~barballs/files/DM-build02-phatman.rar)

Corion
1st Jun 2004, 07:45 AM
It would probably be best to embed the bot stuff inside your level, and also to release it separately on your website for other people to stick in theirs. That way you'll never have to worry about making sure they have the file or if you update the file to include more bot intelligence upgrades. Did you say you'd gotten the bots to lift-jump? If not, it'd probably be best to try to add that to the file before you release it so it draws more publicity. Maybe you could even enter it into Phase3 of MSU or turn it into a full-blown bot intelligence upgrade "addon" project - so that people can stick it in their levels and write a line in the credits that says "Includes the BotSmarts mods v1.23 by Barballs". (You could start a website just for it and get a team together that tries to get bots to do new and more human-like things, like jumping around more often whilst fighting). Never put limits on ideas :0)

EDIT: It would be really cool to also make some sort of mutator that would work with the existing levels to get them to be smarter on the levels that don't/wouldn't have the intelligence upgrade in them.

I would also like to say I can't wait to see this level when its lighting and static mesh implementations are done. ^_^ If those walls are stucco (which I wasn't sure when I said they looked like stucco and still am not) then you could have a lil bit of it peeled/fallen off with the brick showing underneath to add some interest. To add a little interest to the flak and link rooms, you could add a small platform or indent in the floor either under or around the weapon, or possibly some support beams or platforms above the main area (which you could jump or dodge-jump to from the catwalk).

If I think of anything else, you can bet that I'll write a paragraph on it here. ;)

barballs
1st Jun 2004, 10:00 AM
Lol ur just full of ideas dude! I love it, keep it up! :)

It would probably be best to embed the bot stuff inside your level, and also to release it separately on your website for other people to stick in theirs.

Yes that was the plan but I need to learn how to add UC files into myLevel package. I don't have a clue how to do that :) Releasing it seperatly on the website will be done when I have it properly configured and looking good! :)



Did you say you'd gotten the bots to lift-jump? If not, it'd probably be best to try to add that to the file before you release it so it draws more publicity.

Bots already have native support for lift jumping and they can do that. My aim would be to have the bots be able to boost jump around the level. and some already do in the main area of the level. Actually there is an idea I've been meaning to try out for some time now with that in mind. Will try it tonight.


Maybe you could even enter it into Phase3 of MSU or turn it into a full-blown bot intelligence upgrade "addon" project

I wish! Unfortunatly I am not THAT good a coder yet ;) But you have gotten me thinking of possibilities



It would be really cool to also make some sort of mutator that would work with the existing levels to get them to be smarter

Its been done for UT2003, called Super Bots. The last version I am aware of is 2.2. I'm VERY interested in working on a "better bots" project because they have so much potential. We'll see what is cooked up with this map first :)

With regards to the flak and link rooms, they haven't been touched eyecandy-wise yet. Will be sure to keep you up dated.

RedPill
22nd Jun 2004, 06:04 AM
Yes that was the plan but I need to learn how to add UC files into myLevel package. I don't have a clue how to do that Releasing it seperatly on the website will be done when I have it properly configured and looking good!

try this in unreal ed with your level open of course

obj load file=yourscript.u package=MyLevel

goodluck

barballs
2nd Jul 2004, 04:33 AM
Thanks I'll try that.

Well After a long break away from this map I'm finally gonna just dig in and finish it off. At this point I just want it finished so I can move on to the next map. prepare for this map to change in drastic ways!! :D