PDA

View Full Version : Ut2004 Mapping!


Smokin
30th Apr 2004, 07:29 PM
With Ut2004 are you going to insert the vechiles the same way they are done on ONS maps or will the use the Physics engine. The reason i was wondering is if the Physics engine is not being used static meshes dont need collision hulls so i can make the road completly in 3dmax allowing for better textureing and the use of smoothing groups on the road.

stevenhorton
30th Apr 2004, 08:13 PM
Smokin, if you use this link you can download my last map. All the roads are static meshes, and this is a UT2003 map. The one thing you have to keep in mind, and I didn't realise it with my first mesh track, it the entire mesh is rendered all the time. So even if you zone, use antiportals, whatever, that static mesh will mess up the optimization. That's why the map in the link uses track sections. If you have made other maps, UnWheel or not, can we see some of your stuff? Just add a link for us:)

Smokin
1st May 2004, 12:58 AM
I have been mapping for UnrealSpeed for a while now and since we are not going into 2004 i am looking for another racing mod to map for.
I have some screenshot of the latest map that i was making for USpeed, all meshes except for 3(Arrows, barriers and the Skybox) are my own meshes. I am getting better at 3dmax to the point in where i want to make the road completly in 3dmax. Also i am not sure if Unwheel is affected as much but the Physics engine put alot of lag on the multiplay side of Uspeed.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00003.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00004.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00005.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00006.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00007.jpg

Smokin
1st May 2004, 01:15 AM
Basicly i should be asking are you going to add vechiles ONSsluaght map way or Bulldog way(ut2003 way). The Onsluaght vechiles run on meshes with no collision hulls which means more FPS to the game and thats what I am looking for.

ProjectX
1st May 2004, 02:48 AM
Basicly i should be asking are you going to add vechiles ONSsluaght map way or Bulldog way(ut2003 way). The Onsluaght vechiles run on meshes with no collision hulls which means more FPS to the game and thats what I am looking for.

No you can't do it that way because the players choose their vehicle from a menu. The system is very much like the Bulldog vehicle factory, you need one for each player.

By the way the map looks nice, if you ask Steven with your bestest best voice on he might just make you some good lookin' buildings for it too.

Smokin
1st May 2004, 05:55 AM
I would think you can inserted the cars into the map a similar way as the ONS game type with keeping the menu selection it would just require abit of coding.

I have a video clip of the City track, Its not the latest version but its close.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/UnrealSpeed.avi.
Also I know the buildings arnt that great they were a learning curve for textureing in 3dmax.

ProjectX
1st May 2004, 09:05 AM
haven't looked at ther clip yet, will do in a min, but unfortunately we got 3 weeks to Phase III and we gotta make it 2K4 compatible. we do not have time to make the cars "drag and drop". Anyway if u open say City Track you'll see it pretty much is just drag and drop anyway (the vehicle factories are a red car shape with an arrow). In fact when I make my maps I just copy the actor and paste.

stevenhorton
1st May 2004, 11:00 AM
Thanks for the links Smokin, you have alot of variety in your buildings, nice layout. The tree doesn't look like one I have seen, is it custom from USpeed? To partially answer your question, I don't build collision meshes for the road sections, they created problems for the vehicles. So I used the SetSimpleKarmaCollision=true setting, this worked much better. The advantage for you of using this is you can go either way, if no collision hulls are needed for the vehicle just set SetSimpleKarmaCollision=False and you will be fine.

I couldn't get the .avi link to work:(

Smokin
1st May 2004, 12:33 PM
I made the the trees my self and most of whats in the level. I understand how to put in vehicals, i was just wondering in what way you were going with the vehical coding i want to find a mod which will use the ONS vehical coding as they seem to beable to have alot of vehicals running in the game without lag.
I havnt played Unwheel much, do you get much lag when playing with 12 people on the map?

stevenhorton
1st May 2004, 01:51 PM
I have only played with 2 other player, so 3 is the most online players I have experienced. We noticed the lag ended when a certain player wasn't in the game, so I don't know what caused the lag.

ProjectX
1st May 2004, 02:38 PM
I have only played with 2 other player, so 3 is the most online players I have experienced. We noticed the lag ended when a certain player wasn't in the game, so I don't know what caused the lag.


anyway the maps are designed that if you're against good enough players, you won't need 12 people.


I saw the AVI, very impressive! Especially the second map on there. Although it could do with some different trees, those trees there are all the same and I've never seen a forest with only trees of exactly the same type. Steve can probably help out with that too. (check his website)

Also for UnWheel you'll have to scale everything up quite a bit to fit all the different vehicle sizes in, and I'm not exactly sure by how much, and you have to bear in mind that the vehicles do go a bit faster than the USpeed ones do.

Smokin
1st May 2004, 09:26 PM
ProjectX i will have to dissagree with you that good players are enough. I prefer to race in a race with 8 to 12 players rather than with 4 expert players. I will try and look for either a coder or another racing mod group as i really want to try out the new vehical coding that came with UT2004. If all that fails i might just release the two maps that i showed you as community maps.

stevenhorton
1st May 2004, 09:39 PM
Smokin, somewhere we lost you, we are going to UT2004:) See Shrimps post in the general forum. http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=133744

ProjectX
2nd May 2004, 03:49 AM
Smokin, somewhere we lost you, we are going to UT2004:) See Shrimps post in the general forum. http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=133744
yeah but if we changed to the ONS code it would have to be in a later version (maybe when we get A.I. into it) because we only have three weeks left til Phase III

Smokin
2nd May 2004, 06:37 AM
I would also look into the ONS style as they have bot support for it already might only need a little fine tuning.

ProjectX
2nd May 2004, 06:47 AM
I would also look into the ONS style as they have bot support for it already might only need a little fine tuning.

yeah we are already, thanx for the contribution tho


:cake:

EDIT: Oh yeah, and regards to FPS problems here's a quote from someone who's played it:

really nice mod though. i was getting 10 fps with unrealspeed and wanted to get a good car mod. looks like i succeeded.

This quote can be found on the UnWheel! Thread by carmatic in the general threads section.

Smokin
2nd May 2004, 07:46 PM
Ok now ProJectX that was just lame dont try and tell me that your mod was heaps better in FPS than Unrealspeed i was modding on the team and i can tell you heaps of things that are better in the mod than in Unwheel. We had some good features but the Phyics engine laged the whole game down thats why i was asking if you where going to use the ONS vehicals as it should provide a lag free game, It looks like you suffer from the same problem.

jerdaygo
3rd May 2004, 12:53 AM
Hey Smokin, not to change the topic but you mentioned you were familiar with unrealspeed, I am not, but i wanted to check it out real quick and a friend of mine and i downloaded it and we both get the same error when we run it, have you seen this error, I have a 2600xp 512meg DDR and a radeon 9500, my friend, diego1203 has a 3000xp 1gig of ram and a 9700 and we both get this error. If you have any input that would be cool :)

ProjectX
3rd May 2004, 03:00 AM
Ok now ProJectX that was just lame dont try and tell me that your mod was heaps better in FPS than Unrealspeed i was modding on the team and i can tell you heaps of things that are better in the mod than in Unwheel. We had some good features but the Phyics engine laged the whole game down thats why i was asking if you where going to use the ONS vehicals as it should provide a lag free game, It looks like you suffer from the same problem.
:rolleyes:
Hey no need to start a flame war, it IS a quote I DID NOT INVENT IT. Somebody said it who has obviously tried both out, so if you can't take it get lost, k?

Shrimp
3rd May 2004, 05:58 AM
Umm, let's try to clam down...

We don't need or want an UnrealSpeed vs UnWheel war please...

UnWheel will most likely not use the SVehicle base in the future, we'll probably stick with UT2003's KVehicle. The main reason being that we would need a completely new set of vehicles and basically throw away everything we have.

Smokin
3rd May 2004, 08:02 AM
Sorry i am not try to piss anyone off here just trying to find out what Shrimp said. Your mod looks good you have some cool car models and the maps look good as well I dont know what your driving model is like, but I didnt like the early versions(took us a while to fine tune ours and it still wasnt perfect). Also i wasnt a fan of the gametype i played as i was the only person in the map, but i have seen you have addressed that nicely with a few more game types. Anyway good luck on the mod

Shrimp
3rd May 2004, 08:17 AM
Don't worry about it :D

Good luck with UnrealSpeed too, I think both our mods have different enough objectives and gameplay styles to exist alongside eachother without needing to compete... Except in MSUC, but we're competing against all mods anyway ;).

ProjectX
3rd May 2004, 08:45 AM
Don't worry about it :D

Good luck with UnrealSpeed too, I think both our mods have different enough objectives and gameplay styles to exist alongside eachother without needing to compete... Except in MSUC, but we're competing against all mods anyway ;).

yeah and *shudders* Deathball. Let us unite against the infamy that is deathball! (well at least we can hope they won't enter for one of the stages eh?)

jerdaygo
3rd May 2004, 09:49 AM
I hope my post was in no way misunderstood, I really want to try out UnrealSpeed, I just saw your post Smokin that said you had worked with the UnrealSpeed team and though you might real quick have an answer to my problem, I have not had a chance yet to really look into the error (like going to there forum) but thought you might have seen this already. The opening video plays and so do the menus, and what i have seen looks pretty darn cool :)

UltraNew-B
16th May 2004, 02:47 PM
Dang, I was hoping unwheel would go to S-Vehicles as well :( , as they have many more advantages over K-Vehicles. See quote and link below.Big advantage ( besides major speed increase)is you can actually have player models moving around in vehicles (built in).S-Vehicles also have stunt mode capabilitie built in(get points for doing crazy ass stunts). I am familiar with setting up S-Vehicles in Max and importing into UEd, so if you need help setting up vehicles for use in unwheel, i would be more than happy to help out in any way.

Quote from UDN (Epic Website)
http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/SVehicleCreation

"Creation Overview

SVehicles are a different type of Karma vehicle than KVehicles. The main difference between SVehicles and KVehicles is that SVehicles are made of skeletal meshes as opposed to static meshes. You access SVehicles from the "Animations" browser and you export SVehicles from the modeling program with ActorX. Because the meshes have skeletons, SVehicles can include things like tires and moving gun turrets in the single mesh for the vehicle. Previously, with KVehicles, any moving part has to be a separate mesh and a separate object.

SVehicles can be made in both Maya and 3D Studio MAX though the creation process is very different for each. Maya uses bones to control the different parts of the mesh. This is very similar to the normal animated skeletal mesh creation for Unreal. MAX on the other hand does not use any bones, despite the fact that this is a skeletal mesh. Object hierarchy in MAX can be used to generate a skeleton in Unreal. The different parts of the mesh are actually different objects in MAX all "linked" to the root object.

Once created, unlike all other skeletal meshes for Unreal, SVehicles are not animated. The only thing that is important is the mesh/refpose; this is the only thing you should export from the modeling program and the only thing you should import into UnrealEd. Once in Unrealed, SVehicles are not linked to any existing animation.


Rendering Speed Concerns

Traditionally, rendering speed is a concern for skeletal meshes in Unreal. This however is not the case for SVehicles, because they can take advantage of Rigidize which will speed up the rendering of the parts of skeletal meshes that have only one influence. Given that SVehicles generally do not have vertices that are influence by 2 or more bones, Rigidize makes SVehicles render about as fast static meshes. "

ProjectX
16th May 2004, 02:51 PM
We may eventually go over to SVehicle, but in the meantime we got to get stuff done for the MSUC deadlines, like A.I. for example.

Smokin
22nd May 2004, 09:53 PM
I have a few screenshots of the map i am making, only it has collision problems with the road. I am thinking that i could also realese it for Unwheel as a Community map.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00014.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00015.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00016.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/Shot00017.jpg

stevenhorton
22nd May 2004, 10:47 PM
Your work looks good Smokin:) I don't recall Unreal Speed having any mesh based tracks, I only went to them because you cannot texture terrain to look like a race track; meshes look much better. I then ran into the problem of covering the edges of the mesh where ever they went up or down hill, so I added the red and white edges just to have a margin of error. You may have said it, but what do you model in?

Smokin
22nd May 2004, 11:57 PM
I use 3dmax5 and my problem isnt the edges of the map, the cars are hitting something on the track and i have no idea what it is. I have redone part of the track with blocking volumes instead of a collision hull and the problem still continues. It happens for both mods Uspeed and Unwheel.

Are you able to turn off shadows casting for BSP shapes?

ProjectX
23rd May 2004, 03:57 AM
I use 3dmax5 and my problem isnt the edges of the map, the cars are hitting something on the track and i have no idea what it is. I have redone part of the track with blocking volumes instead of a collision hull and the problem still continues. It happens for both mods Uspeed and Unwheel.

Are you able to turn off shadows casting for BSP shapes?

You can turn off shadow casting but I can't remember what it is. On the collision side of things try turning all the collision properties to false IN THE STATICMESH BROWSER for those meshes not on the actualy mesh itself. That way you get a very detailed and very realisticly collisioned road for the Karma.

Map looks sweet btw.

stevenhorton
23rd May 2004, 10:11 AM
Smokin, I also a collision problems:( However, they all happen with either the centipede, Master of Disaster or the Humvee; no other vehicles :hmm: The error also occurs in approximatly the same place on every map. One map I was able to fix by moving the entire world up about 4096uu. I have no idea what this is:P

stevenhorton
24th May 2004, 12:01 AM
Well, I found out what was causing the collision errors in CityTrack; one mesh was causing all the problems, when I removed it there were no more errors:) The one mesh causing the errors was the track mesh:P

UltraNew-B
24th May 2004, 12:32 AM
Yep, I am having issues with track sections as well, the lower body cars hitting the edge of the road section and flipping. This is the reason for my delay in releasing this sucker. :(

Next level I make, the entire road will be one or 2 pieces, totally made in max and imported. While the modular road system is nice, this collision issue problem is a royal pain in the arse, and consumes way too much time and frustration trying to tweak it. :)

ProjectX
24th May 2004, 01:53 AM
Yep, I am having issues with track sections as well, the lower body cars hitting the edge of the road section and flipping. This is the reason for my delay in releasing this sucker. :(

Next level I make, the entire road will be one or 2 pieces, totally made in max and imported. While the modular road system is nice, this collision issue problem is a royal pain in the arse, and consumes way too much time and frustration trying to tweak it. :)

I only got the problems on one map. In this one the cars would occasionally sink into the ground.

stevenhorton
24th May 2004, 09:03 AM
The collision problem with the CityTrack mesh is much more severe than hitting the edges and flipping, I hit an invisible wall in several places on the track. There seem to be no way to use the mesh and have a track usable for all the vehicles. Btw, does the configure Bots option work for UnWheel? That would allow determining which vehicles could use a particular map.

ProjectX
24th May 2004, 10:10 AM
Btw, does the configure Bots option work for UnWheel? That would allow determining which vehicles could use a particular map.

I haven't given it a try yet. I'll tell you if it does but I doubt it will.

Smokin
26th May 2004, 07:58 AM
A few pics of my latest track.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/US-Racetrack1.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/US-Racetrack2.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/US-Racetrack3.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/US-Racetrack4.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/US-Racetrack5.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~hyoung/US-Racetrack6.jpg

My next track will be more of a rally style track for single player racing in which I hope to make it atleast 4 mins long with nice long streches and a few Hair pins. It should be for UnrealSpeed and Unwheel.

stevenhorton
26th May 2004, 08:04 AM
Looking good Smokin:)

carmatic
3rd Jun 2004, 08:45 AM
heeyy thats a nice lookin map, i luv the 'holiday' look of it... you know, the stuff you find in profesionally done arcade racers and stuff.... just needs to have more random stuff in it to look at, thats all

and oh, i got an idea, like, can the unwheel exhibit some kind of an unrealspeed compatibility mode? like , umm... play the maps, interpret the vehicle spawn points, rescale the vehicles if neccesarry, etc etc... that would be kinda... umm... adding the list of maps we can all play!

and on a side note... is unrealed the cheapest commercial computer artistry program available?

Smokin
3rd Jun 2004, 08:57 AM
I was thinking of adding Billboards around the map which should give abit more colour.
UnrealSpeed uses playerstarts as starting points so if you want to play Uspeed maps in Unwheel you will have to add the Unwheel Vehical coding to each map.

Unrealed may be cheap but it isnt awesome you still need a program like 3dmax or Maya to make the Quality 3d models on the other hand the unreal engine is awesome.

ProjectX
3rd Jun 2004, 12:54 PM
and on a side note... is unrealed the cheapest commercial computer artistry program available?

probably not fo it to be commercial then the license must be bought and that's between $350,000 and $750,000, however if you wanted that quality you get wit te Unreal Engine then you're probably nt gonna go for something cheaper

carmatic
3rd Jun 2004, 04:00 PM
hmm ah ok... never knew they had licenses for unrealed .... heh maybe its for people who make games like deus ex or whatever... what i originally meant by 'commercial' was non-free , like something you need to pay something for...

yeah i really look forward to seeing smokin's map and stuff... the screenshots look promising
ah exams are over... next week i'll start looking at tutorial videos for making my own maps in unrealed... its from 3dbuzz, right? do they still host them for free?

ProjectX
3rd Jun 2004, 06:49 PM
hmm ah ok... never knew they had licenses for unrealed .... heh maybe its for people who make games like deus ex or whatever... what i originally meant by 'commercial' was non-free , like something you need to pay something for...

yeah i really look forward to seeing smokin's map and stuff... the screenshots look promising
ah exams are over... next week i'll start looking at tutorial videos for making my own maps in unrealed... its from 3dbuzz, right? do they still host them for free?

yeh, u gotta buy a license if you want to sell your game, and 3DBuzz.com still do free UED VTMs

carmatic
3rd Jun 2004, 10:49 PM
lets change the topic once again.... ive been thinking... maybe such a serious mod about driving for unwheel, should create its own vehicle class... or is that seriously out of the question and stuff.... hm what am i talking about... hey i dunno what im talking about, i guess that means i need sleep...
actually, something that has the suspension animation and all that stuff of svehicles, with the accurate spinning wheels of kvehicles
in fact, for end-user satisfaction, i was thinking, maybe only the vehicle that the player directly controls should have proper physics modelling (it helps the player judge the best move that could be done next) , while all the other vehicles can be purely svehicles because they save bandwidth and processing power and stuff...