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Demo_Boy
18th Mar 2004, 01:56 PM
The tech 2x hack ability is so good that it tips the game towards tech.

I'd say all the classes should hack at the same speed, halfway between the tech speed and the gunner speed.

That way there's no need to choose tech just to break a well guarded spawn.

The classes are pretty even otherwise.

[V3]Folo
18th Mar 2004, 02:05 PM
That way there's no need to choose tech just to break a well guarded spawn.

That's...the point. I use to play tech EXCLUSIVELY because of their high hack rate. Now, I play all 3 classes evenly, because I always find myself wanting someone elses weaponry. (or speed :| (darn rangers move so fast :p ))

fireball
18th Mar 2004, 02:19 PM
..
A tech complaint that doesn't mention gas? :eek:

But really, that's the tech's purpose. You don't see techs sniping, do you? It's the gunner that really needs a specific role.

-=McBean=-
18th Mar 2004, 02:22 PM
I think techs should have the advantage, without it there wouldnt be any point in them exisiting apart from the SG's and even then they aren't very effective against a rocket launcher ;)

Dead_Metal
18th Mar 2004, 02:24 PM
Hi vehicle fux0rer of doom, mines - trip mines, and rocket launcher. not to mention incendiary nades- plus his anti personel guns such as the flame thrower, flash nades, incendiary again and rockent launcer again, oh and of course those mines that ppl love to put on the node X_X.

I likes ranger now :} - he is so fun and it takes aim to kill with the widowmaker, especially in close combat :P - PS I'm kinda in [xF] now :P sorry, I know yall wanted me (enter many laughs to follow - after I leave of course)

W0RF
18th Mar 2004, 02:26 PM
Tech needs hack speed to make up for his subpar weaponry.

-=McBean=-
18th Mar 2004, 02:37 PM
Tech needs hack speed to make up for his subpar weaponry.

Exactly the right reason why techs should be the only ones with the hack advantage

Demo_Boy
18th Mar 2004, 02:44 PM
Tech needs hack speed to make up for his subpar weaponry.

MG chews rangers and gunners at good range.

Shotty one shot kills, plus magic shotty sniping technique.

Gas.

Massive turret farms. Load em up and move out.

Good movement speed.

and his other goodies are at least halfway decent too.

You really think tech weaponry is weaker overall than the other classes????!?!??!?!?!

Gunner has awesome rockets, mines and infinite ammo. He's not crap, but the versatility of the tech aresenal is wider.

[DF]phalanx
18th Mar 2004, 02:46 PM
hackin techs are rocket launcher fodder ;)
i dont care about techs that much they may be fast but my juggernaught cannon kinda stops em :p

they should get rid of the gas grenades
1 blast radius is rediculous
2 ppl spam it and it lags everyone
3 does too much damage

Brainiacus
18th Mar 2004, 02:54 PM
MG chews rangers and gunners at good range.

Shotty one shot kills, plus magic shotty sniping technique.

Gas.

Massive turret farms.

Good movement speed.

and his other goodies are at least halfway decent too.

You really think tech weaponry is weaker overall than the other classes????!?!??!?!?!

Gunner has awesome rockets, mines and infinite ammo. He's not crap, but the versatility of the tech aresenal is wider.

MG - Against rangers at short to medium range, surely. At long range, they'll have the advantage. Against gunners?!!?! You have got to be kidding me. That's like trying to empty the average lake with a plastic bucket of water.

SG - Yup, up close with alternate anything can be dropped in one shot. Still, a sniper can drop you at very long range with nearly one shot, and two shots aren't that hard to hit if the enemy wasn't paying attention. Trying to sneak up on the enemy requires a whole lot less attention-paying on his part, and even when close still requires a decent aim to land the hit. Only primary fire shotgun hits instantly, but the flamey shotgun travels for a bit, so the tech needs to anticipate where the enemy will be in a split second. Not always as easy. Magic sniping? Only primary shotgun carries far, and it fires exactly 17 pellets. If you look at the spread, and realise that this spread is random, you will note that the sniping technique is only viable against rangers or people at really low health.

Gas - Agreed. Really powerful. But only 6 shots, and you need at least half of those to down the average noob unless you can headshot people out of the air with nades. Elite players won't even go down after 6 nades, unless they're cornered/injured. The limited ammunition balances gas grenades. The biggest problem here is noobs who die often and therefore get frequent refills of the nades, and use them as their only weapon (before they die once again).

Massive turret farms - Hurts the own team as much as the enemy team, if not more. I've lost many games because my node was offline even though my team had both arties, only to have some people on my team leave and some elite people join on the other team, and lose a long and painful battle. The energy these farms drain is huge, and only a few turrets which are skillfully placed can be energy efficient and effective. That, however, requires a very strategically gifted technician, and you don't often encounter those on publics. Still, if you face turret farms and the enemy has enough power to sustain them, you (or your team) is doing something horribly wrong. Hack those generators!

Good movement speed - Ranger is quicker, gunner is slower. Raptor owns all. What more is there to say?

Other goodies - Yes, don't forget the tech's laser fences. They have got to be the most powerful tool in the game. Or those fantastic shield packs after you got revived, then you can have 1 health and 300 shields!

Tech weaponry weaker - Overall? I'm not sure. I'd almost say the tech has the perfect equipment for a player like me. Ironically enough you forgot to mention EMP grenades, which I would pick as a favorite out of all six grenades. Take out a small cluster of turrets in one shot, and packs a real punch against vehicles too.

Demo_Boy
18th Mar 2004, 03:07 PM
a sniper can drop you at very long range with nearly one shot,

Massive turret farms - Hurts the own team as much as the enemy team, if not more. I've lost many games because my node was offline even though my team had both arties


1. nearly one shot is like saying nearly pregnant. If the enemy is paying attention, two shots without the ranger giving up terrain (backing up) is very very tough.

2. Turrets placed in the field are cleared by enemies pretty quickly due to score. Massive turret farms at the node usually pays for itself if its an 8 v 8. If less than 8v8 then the drain comes into play. The technique I was referring to was loading up on turrets and dropping them as you leave the enemy node to slow down chasers. Not a problem for gunners -- but they can't keep up with a tech anyway.

I still think the Ranger is most disadvantaged by the tech speed hack time.

-=McBean=-
18th Mar 2004, 03:13 PM
All tech stuff can be easily taken out by a ranger if he is outside of their range and a gunner should be able to take pretty much all of them out if he gets the shot in properly...

I don't really believe techs are very gifted in the weapons department, that's why they need their hack advantage. If all classes had the same hack speed then it would just make the techs more weaker than they already are :(

Tapeworm
18th Mar 2004, 03:25 PM
I'd of thought the name would of given away the fact that technicians are designed for hacking and laying automated defenses.

There's no point in balancing the game so that Rangers and Gunners could hack fast, it would make a large amount of the techs usefulness redundant. Rangers aren't designed for hacking, nor are Gunners. If you want to hack, don't play as a Ranger or a Gunner. A lot of your threads seem to imply you just want your personal preferred class to be able to do everything the other classes can.

The classes are perfectly balanced as they are.

Demo_Boy
18th Mar 2004, 04:33 PM
I'd of thought the name would of given away the fact that technicians are designed for hacking and laying automated defenses.
There's no point in balancing the game so that Rangers and Gunners could hack fast, it would make a large amount of the techs usefulness redundant. ...
If you want to hack, don't play as a Ranger or a Gunner. A lot of your threads seem to imply you just want your personal preferred class to be able to do everything the other classes can.



Where to begin:
1. tech explains the turrets and forcefields. I think they got a fast hack because of the name assignment, not because of an innate aesthetic in the hack time differences between the classes. If there was supposed to be a three way aesthetic for hacking (as there is for the other class elements) there would be three hack time differences, one for each class. But there are only two. Techs fast, gunners and rangers equally slow. Moreover the ranger needs the hack speed the most because he is at the highest risk if enemies spawn while he's hacking the deploy -- his only benefit is range, which he gives up during a hack attempt.

Techs are so useful they could hack the slowest and they'd still be a lynchpin of the game. Turrets, forcewalls, mg vs ranger, gas -- those are important abilities! So I disagree that it would make a LARGE part of techs redundant.

The main issue is if I _need_ to hack, I can't use anything BUT a tech. He's the only way you can clear a contested deploy. Maybe if you could destroy convertible deploypoints temporarily that would change things. Or if you could short circiut deploy points so they spawn at half the speed. Or if frequently used deploypoints pushed out their respawn timer. -- but no, you have to go as a tech and clear the turrets and wait for 5 gas grenades to clear out, and then hope more enemies have not respawned. If you snipe an enemy deploy point it's zero sum gain, since he just respawns and you have two less bullets out of 15.

WRT classes, I play them all, Ranger is my worst, tech is my best, gunner on D. So you are just wrong if you say my post is just class envy. I'd just like to be able to use all the classes with a more equal frequency. Variety is the spice of life.

Tapeworm
18th Mar 2004, 04:49 PM
Where to begin:
1. tech explains the turrets and forcefields. I think they got a fast hack because of the name assignment, not because of an innate aesthetic in the hack time differences between the classes. If there was supposed to be a three way aesthetic for hacking (as there is for the other class elements) there would be three hack time differences, one for each class. But there are only two. Techs fast, gunners and rangers equally slow. Moreover the ranger needs the hack speed the most because he is at the highest risk if enemies spawn while he's hacking the deploy -- his only benefit is range, which he gives up during a hack attempt.


Rangers aren't designed for hacking. If you do use them to hack (gawd knows why) it's just asking for trouble hacking deploys, i'd stick to energy sources.


Techs are so useful they could hack the slowest and they'd still be a lynchpin of the game. Turrets, forcewalls, mg vs ranger, gas -- those are important abilities! So I disagree that it would make a LARGE part of techs redundant.


Techs are pretty much the middleground class in pretty much all aspects except hacking. Just like the Ranger has the advantage of speed and sniping which no other classes do, and the Gunner having strong amour and very powerful weapons in close range (aswell as mines and tripmines).

If you want Rangers and Gunners to have equal hacking abilities, you might aswell make Techs and Gunners as fast as Rangers and equip them sniper rifles, then give Techs and Rangers the armour and weapons of Gunners. If not there would be a great unbalance and techs would be the weakest class rather than an even middleground class.


The main issue is if I _need_ to hack, I can't use anything BUT a tech. He's the only way you can clear a contested deploy. Maybe if you could destroy convertible deploypoints temporarily that would change things. Or if you could short circiut deploy points so they spawn at half the speed. Or if frequently used deploypoints pushed out their respawn timer. -- but no, you have to go as a tech and clear the turrets and wait for 5 gas grenades to clear out, and then hope more enemies have not respawned. If you snipe an enemy deploy point it's zero sum gain, since he just respawns and you have two less bullets out of 15.


If there's a very busy enemy deploy then it's utter stupidity to attempt to regain it on your own without backup, and even stupider to try to regain it as anything except a Tech. Really this is more common sense than a lack of balance, XMP is based on teamplay not lone people being able to do everything on their own.


WRT classes, I play them all, Ranger is my worst, tech is my best, gunner on D. So you are just wrong if you say my post is just class envy. I'd just like to be able to use all the classes with a more equal frequency. Variety is the spice of life.


If they were all equal there would be no need for seperate classes at all.

i_am_Loki
18th Mar 2004, 04:50 PM
U guys gotta look at who created the Game.. (Techies) of course the Tech is gunna ROCK :-p

Twrecks
18th Mar 2004, 05:05 PM
I spawn as what is required.
1. Ranger if I need to get somewhere fast
2. Tech, setting up defense
3. Gunner, for sheer fire power.

Brainiacus
18th Mar 2004, 05:11 PM
Demo_Boy, try playing on a server which has an 8 second deploy timer. Or 10 or 12 or whatever obscenely low timer you can find. The default is 24 seconds if I remember correctly. On those 8-second servers, not even a team of two technicians can hack a deploy point properly. :D

i_am_Loki
18th Mar 2004, 05:28 PM
what do you mean by hack a deploy point properly? all you do is hold the action button and hack it.... If a team of two technicians can't hack it then a team of 4 rangers couldn't hack it "properly".. and a team of 8 gunners to hack it "Properly" that is if you mean "properly" by speed.

PF Prophet
18th Mar 2004, 05:42 PM
i play all classes= and u know they all have there uses

i would like to see each class have an added item of some kind they can deploy only x number per map though
i will explain that later

techs are fast hackers becouse thats there primary function

rangers are there for speed and range fighting

gunners are there for firepower and laying defences (call me the mine masta)

properly used any class can do any job

a team of rangers/gunners can take back a deploy just fine witout the tech 2+ hacking togather can get the thing back in not time

as for the deployables

gunner i think it would be koo to see a deployable gunner possition like a gattlinng gun bunker(room for 1-2 ppl behind the protective wall)
make the thing like a high powered MG maby like the altfire but no rechochet and at a higher rate with less accuracy

tech a sheld that will hold for x ammount of hp and keep everything out even gas

ranger calatrops(sp) to throw down as u run only somebody that would step on them would be hert or somebody in a car


they would have to be worked to balance on each map but they would add another level

tech thing is just an idea like the tribes sheld walls



oh and i do think tech's should beable to rep turets/vehickls/exct they are technology after all

PF Prophet
18th Mar 2004, 06:31 PM
oh forgot turret farms used properly are grate

i had one of like 30 turrets the other night and some dumbass was kindenought to put more out is a stupid place so i just kept taking them down and moving them to the node LOL

i was like 3rd from the top and only acctuly killed 1 persion with my MG LOL

god i love farmin :P

Dead_Metal
18th Mar 2004, 06:51 PM
Can it just be said that the skills are varied based on the player, I mean look at the tech, he can be great in either defense or assault, it depends on the player, the ranger can take out ppl at long distance and also sneak in to bases, Gunners can take out tanks and people in a fight. Everything depends on the player. Personally I liked playing as the tech first cause I liked using the Duster (for those who actually played U2) and never really ever bothered with the Gas nades, though I did use em once or twice in my XMP experience. I have been working on being a top knotch Ranger lately for being in a clan so :P - yeah. Gunners are friggin cool btw.

Coomby
18th Mar 2004, 11:05 PM
My two cents:

It is completely illogical and ill-conceived for a gunner with 500 shields to be killed by one lame Tech Shotgun Char. Comon, look at what the gunner is wearing! Gunners can survive Juggy hits sometimes! WTF? Also, really now, how could gas possibly hurt Gunners as much as it does, one direct shot kills em. If that doesnt do it, a skilled tech can spam enough gas to kill most of his own team aswell. :lol: What, they forgot to make those monstrosities of suits Gunners wear air tight?

Aswell, the Techs electrical grenade is too powerfull. It blows up Juggys in two hits, Raptors with one, and destroys mass amounts of deplayables with one shot. Techs can also pick up other Techs deployables and redeploy them as thier own, this needs a fix! Oh ya, I forgot, Atari fired Legend so the game will never be fixed. :mad: Funny thing is, they continue to sell the U2XMP version in stores for 39.99CDN. :mwink:

I play Ranger and Gunner just to take pleasure in killing gay Techs. :lol: When I play a Tech, I own. I continually get scores over 10k and people saying 'stop gassing', or 'Your lame', etc. I have 6 gas grenades, why not use the most overpowered weapon in the game as my primary weapon? When I run out of ammo, Ill surely find an ammo resupply station.:D For me personally, Tech is the easiest class to play and score points with, therefore making them the least challenging, which makes them the most boring to play. Rangers and Gunners are challenging, making them the most exciting class to play. A truely skilled Tech, that can evade Rangers sniper rifle and Gunners rockets, can be almost unstoppable. Thankfully these players are fairly rare to come across.

2nd best speed+ one shot kills+ best vehicle and deployable destoying weapons+ fastest hack times+ deployables = most overpowered class in game.

P.S. the contents of this post are highly flammable

Stoneblind
18th Mar 2004, 11:37 PM
The contemplation of the class system usually brings about a ton of debatable things to discuss. I honestly find the advantages and disadvantages of each class relatively well done, but I do have a couple of grudges with the Tech, as many people do, but I am not fanatical about it at all.

I do agree with Coomby whenever a gunner gets killed in a single shot by a shotgun secondary fire up close, because I have seen gunners get hit point blank in the forehead with a rocket and survive, and I find that relatively strange in comparison to the char shot. :lol: In most cases you will probably not get instantly killed by the shotgun char if you are paying attention, although some people like to abuse it and char the living hell out of you so you can stay blind until you die. :rolleyes: I usually get killed by that whenever I am hacking and the Tech sneaks up behind me; no big deal to me, but can be quite irritating. I get them back anyways. ^.^

The gas can be avoided in more opened areas, but when the time comes that gas starts filling up claustrophobic areas, than that can be a major crippler, but can be avoided, but I think its power is alright when it is not "spammed." = o DThe good part about it is that it does not screw up your vision too bad, I guess. The EMP grenade seems to be totally fine. They clear up turret farms pretty well and do great against vehicles, which makes sense to me, because I would think Techs would have the best means of destroying deployables and machinery.

I am totally fine with the hacking speed; someone has to be good at it. It makes sense that the Tech would be. I only be a Tech at the beginning of most matches just to hack the hell out of everything early or if my team is short on energy and deploy points. I prefer Gunners for combat. I use Rangers for artifact mad dashing and nothing else because my system cannot pump out enough frames to aim well and my ping normally prevents me from making solid shots.

The other classes seem well rounded to me. I just prefer Gunners because of their blast radius and power as well as unlimited ammo and good defense and Tech assistance. Everything else seems fine; perhaps the Techs can be a tiny bit reduced in power, as far as the charring goes.

The key, from how I see it, is using the classes when at need and when at best, not just sticking to a class fetish and staying as one. :)

Brainiacus
19th Mar 2004, 05:00 AM
My two cents:

It is completely illogical and ill-conceived for a gunner with 500 shields to be killed by one lame Tech Shotgun Char. Comon, look at what the gunner is wearing! Gunners can survive Juggy hits sometimes! WTF? Also, really now, how could gas possibly hurt Gunners as much as it does, one direct shot kills em. If that doesnt do it, a skilled tech can spam enough gas to kill most of his own team aswell. :lol: What, they forgot to make those monstrosities of suits Gunners wear air tight?

Aswell, the Techs electrical grenade is too powerfull. It blows up Juggys in two hits, Raptors with one, and destroys mass amounts of deplayables with one shot. Techs can also pick up other Techs deployables and redeploy them as thier own, this needs a fix! Oh ya, I forgot, Atari fired Legend so the game will never be fixed. :mad: Funny thing is, they continue to sell the U2XMP version in stores for 39.99CDN. :mwink:

I play Ranger and Gunner just to take pleasure in killing gay Techs. :lol: When I play a Tech, I own. I continually get scores over 10k and people saying 'stop gassing', or 'Your lame', etc. I have 6 gas grenades, why not use the most overpowered weapon in the game as my primary weapon? When I run out of ammo, Ill surely find an ammo resupply station.:D For me personally, Tech is the easiest class to play and score points with, therefore making them the least challenging, which makes them the most boring to play. Rangers and Gunners are challenging, making them the most exciting class to play. A truely skilled Tech, that can evade Rangers sniper rifle and Gunners rockets, can be almost unstoppable. Thankfully these players are fairly rare to come across.

2nd best speed+ one shot kills+ best vehicle and deployable destoying weapons+ fastest hack times+ deployables = most overpowered class in game.

P.S. the contents of this post are highly flammable
First, fire and gas nearly completely bypass shields, just like the sniper round does. So a gunner doesn't have 500 shields, no, the gunner has 100 health just like the other classes! Shields apparantly do not function versus fire or versus gas, and it could be assumed all actual 'armor' being worn by the classes is as much heat-resistant as the other and they are all equipped with the same non-functional (non-existant?) gas mask.

Second, an EMP grenade does not instantly kill a raptor nor does it take two hits to take out a jugg.
Raptor: 2 EMP grenades
Harbinger: 3 EMP grenades
Juggernaut: 4 EMP grenades
Of course, that applies to the vehicles at full health. I always play tech, I love EMP grenades and I love trying to blow up vehicles. Those numbers are a fact. Mass amount of deployables are only taken out when the enemy is stupid enough to cluster them up real close. Space em out further than the average length of a raptor and no single grenade will scratch two turrets. As for picking up eachother's deployables, there are worse things out there. For example running over your own team's mines, teammates 'borrowing' your vehicle and driving off as you were hacking that deploy point (only to have enemies spawn), and teamkilling.

Gas grenades are powerful, and as you said, 6 shots. I've tried hanging around resupply points and gas everyone, but there was always some flamethrower wielding gunner sneaking up on me or some other tech handing my ass to me up close with the shotgun. Gas grenades are balanced by their ammo, and if you take away the limited ammo by camping a supply node, you effectively take away the player's ability to be mobile and therefore create a sitting duck. Any gunner could camp a health and shield node with their supply packs and also be near invincible versus common weapons. If techs are so powerful and therefore not exciting, then don't play them. I agree with you that I can score the highest playing as a tech, just because they are the most versatile and can do a bit of everything. Being able to do that just makes them more exciting, because I'm not restricted to just sniping or falling asleep behind my computer because the meatball moves so damned slow.

2nd best speed? Wrong. Raptor moves quicker. Harby also moves quicker. You can't ignore the vehicles except on maps where they are not present.

One shot kills? True. Same applies to various other classes. Ever received the average grenade to the head as a ranger or tech? You're dead. Only meatball survives. Hop into a juggernaut and anyone has one shot kills, well, except maybe against meatballs. Surely the tech has the best ability to one shot kill, but he needs to get close and the enemy needs to be pretty much moving in a straight line or standing still.

Best vehicle and deployable destoying weapons? I'd say a gunner has the tech beat. A gunner can fire more rockets while I run out of grenades and have to use the shotgun or MG. Also, techs cannot destroy vehicles camping far away or up high, because their grenades are ballistic. Both rangers and gunners can fire shots which do good damage against vehicles and carry far in a straight line.

Fastest hack times? Correct, that's what techs are good for.

Deployables? Yup, they're powerful. But the gunner's mines are equally strong, if not stronger.

Most overpowered? Do you see all clans playing their matches with 100% tech teams? Nope, you're wrong. The best team has a good mix of all three classes.

Naib
19th Mar 2004, 06:57 AM
Most overpowered? Do you see all clans playing their matches with 100% tech teams? Nope, you're wrong. The best team has a good mix of all three classes.

Very true. Have a look at some of the posts in this forum with clans looking for new players. Most are looking for gunners and rangers. I admit the tech is the best all round class, but using all of them will give you the best team.

fireball
19th Mar 2004, 07:06 AM
I've seen EMP nades destroy a Jugg in two hits (I should know, I was in it at the time :p). It was at full health. Apparently different areas on the vehicles take different damage but I have yet to find the Jugg's "weak spot."

Aaron Leiby
19th Mar 2004, 07:18 AM
I love these discussions because they invariably wind up with about an equal number of people saying one class is better than the others. As it should be.

Brainiacus
19th Mar 2004, 10:09 AM
No, Juggernauts do not have weak spots. If your jugg died in two hits than you must either not be able to use basic maths (1, 2, 3, 4 -- as opposed to 3, 1, 4, 2) or something else is hitting your tank at the same time. I dare you, go onto an empty server, play a tech, run up to any tank and try to kill it with two EMP nades while the tank has freshly spawned. Impossible.

fireball
19th Mar 2004, 10:20 AM
Maybe there were two techs, but I remember my tank's health go from 900 to 450ish to 0 in a a blue cloud.

-=McBean=-
19th Mar 2004, 10:39 AM
I've seen EMP nades destroy a Jugg in two hits (I should know, I was in it at the time :p). It was at full health. Apparently different areas on the vehicles take different damage but I have yet to find the Jugg's "weak spot."

Maybe you just didn't see the other hits? lol

Houdini-GG
19th Mar 2004, 10:51 AM
theres not a big enough difference between the weapons of the classes anyhow, by upping the rangers/gunners hack speed, u would be removing one of the very few uniques of the classes.

cyb
19th Mar 2004, 11:25 AM
i think all classes are balanced just fine. no need to change anything.

Šetta
19th Mar 2004, 11:52 AM
Moreover the ranger needs the hack speed the most because he is at the highest risk if enemies spawn while he's hacking the deploy -- his only benefit is range, which he gives up during a hack attempt.

An adept ranger is equally deadly at any range. & lets not forget speed and the ability to heal yourself!

Not to mention a rangers ability to kill any other class at full HP in under a second. (without the range limitation of the shotty's alt fire)

He is certainly not an underpowered class. :p

Houdini-GG
19th Mar 2004, 12:42 PM
Detta:
thanks for concreting my notion that there isn't enough differentiation between the classes in XMP. I never thought i'd get that support inside the XMP forums. thanks :)

Coomby
19th Mar 2004, 05:49 PM
Brainiacus:

First, fire and gas nearly completely bypass shields, just like the sniper round does. So a gunner doesn't have 500 shields, no, the gunner has 100 health just like the other classes! Shields apparantly do not function versus fire or versus gas, and it could be assumed all actual 'armor' being worn by the classes is as much heat-resistant as the other and they are all equipped with the same non-functional (non-existant?) gas mask. My point exactly, completely illogical and ill-conceived. :eek: It would be logical that the Sniper rifle shot armor peircing rounds tho. :)

Juggernaut: 4 EMP grenades
I've been blown up with two sometimes at full vehicle health. I doubt your numbers are facts:boom: and im pretty sure vehicles have weak spots, ill test it to find out.

Gas grenades are powerful, and as you said, 6 shots. I've tried hanging around resupply points and gas everyone, but there was always some flamethrower wielding gunner sneaking up on me or some other tech handing my ass to me up close with the shotgun. Gas grenades are balanced by their ammo, and if you take away the limited ammo by camping a supply node, you effectively take away the player's ability to be mobile and therefore create a sitting duck. Any gunner could camp a health and shield node with their supply packs and also be near invincible versus common weapons. If techs are so powerful and therefore not exciting, then don't play them. I agree with you that I can score the highest playing as a tech, just because they are the most versatile and can do a bit of everything. Being able to do that just makes them more exciting, because I'm not restricted to just sniping or falling asleep behind my computer because the meatball moves so damned slow. Gas is equivelent to the BFG in Q3.

2nd best speed? Wrong. Raptor moves quicker. Harby also moves quicker. You can't ignore the vehicles except on maps where they are not present. Actually I didnt realize Raptors and Harby's were classes that could be played? Maybe im wrong since all of Brain's information are well checked facts.:B

One shot kills? True. Same applies to various other classes. Ever received the average grenade to the head as a ranger or tech? You're dead. Only meatball survives. Hop into a juggernaut and anyone has one shot kills, well, except maybe against meatballs. Surely the tech has the best ability to one shot kill, but he needs to get close and the enemy needs to be pretty much moving in a straight line or standing still. Techs are the only class that has one shot kills against ALL other classes. 1 shot MG,second fuction against ranger at full heath full shields,dead. 1 shot up close SG char, any class, dead. 1 shot SG upclose against ranger, dead. 1 direct EMP grenade to ranger, dead. 1 well placed gas grenade, any class, dead. Rangers get: 1 headshot grenade to ranger or tech. Gunners get: 1 headshot to ranger with rocket and mines. Notice anything uneven here? Again I didnt realize a Juggy was a class that could be played?

Most overpowered? Do you see all clans playing their matches with 100% tech teams? Nope, you're wrong. The best team has a good mix of all three classes. No, but I was talking about classes on an individual basis, not what classes make the best team. You cant say im wrong and youre right. Obviously im biased toward Rangers and Gunners and youre biased towards GAY Techs :lol:

carmatic
19th Mar 2004, 06:40 PM
umm the 'tank health' thing might be an issue, i have been on servers where people can bask in 5 whole seconds of turret fire (roundhouse, raptor, swingarm, etc etc) , and seemingly not get harmed at all... some servers tweaked the relative damages of some stuff, maybe your particular server has a bias towards vehicle destruction?

i think that there are lots of subtleties in xmp that many of you have pointed out, like tech can drop deployables that drain team energy and the overpowered low-ammo gas grenade... and how the tech specializes in elements that make xmp what it is, like a faster hack speed and having the most powerful anti vehicular weapon... matches where nobody became a tech felt distinctly bland and generic, then again so were matches where there were all techs... but when your in a game , and you have techs on your team who you hardly see action with , or you are playing as one, the effect of techs are not so obvious, but xmp works by making it show if all the techs are on one side of the team and the other team was filled with the 'classical' roles and if everyone is playing properly...
hmm maybe if we can look up the stats for xmp , and see which class gave people the highest score... that is, if score counts more than plain kills or team wins...

Dead_Metal
19th Mar 2004, 07:10 PM
Coomby, no beating around the bush, you just made this fact too damn obvious - your an idiot.

Coomby
19th Mar 2004, 07:42 PM
Coomby, no beating around the bush, you just made this fact too damn obvious - your an idiot.
Dead_Metal:rl: ,dude your the ignorant name calling idoit, im poking fun at Brainicus :lol: Its all in good fun. Dont respond to things you dont understand, jeeez!!.

Dru998
19th Mar 2004, 09:05 PM
I do feel that the Tech has the best of all three worlds. Great hacking speed, good run speed, and the best damage of all three classes. When im not in the mood for aiming, I choose a tech :rolleyes: . Here's a quote from gamespot's review of XMP: "The tech acts as the basic soldier and engineer, carrying easy-to-use weapons like the assault rifle and shotgun, as well as kits for deploying force fields and automated defense turrets."[They cant sue me for using a quote from thier site can they? :eek: ] I agree with this, with the ranger taking the most skill to play and the Gunner coming in a close second.

[OT] Speaking of balance though, I have been playing BFV and damn that M60 is just viscous. Nothing like running around Rambo style :minigun: :D . That needs a good fixin' ;) .

Richteralan
19th Mar 2004, 10:42 PM
OMG!
Gas is equal BFG in QIII
LMFAO!!!!!!!

Šetta
20th Mar 2004, 12:19 AM
Np's Houdini, I'm trying not to take sides, just give my honest opinion.

I have never really understood the fuss about gas grenades, sure a direct hit is hellah powerful, but so is a frag and incendry.

The sheer speed and movement you are granted in XMP should allow you to avoid the shot or boost out of the gas cloud in a split second.
Perhaps not a gunner, but that’s the whole point of having class based combat, some weapons more effective against certain targets e.t.c. It adds depth to the game and encourages teamplay. :)

I play tech allot, I use gas mostly to suppress or heard my target, rarely as a stand-alone weapon....
I find the techs that run around lobbing gas till they are out of ammo are often very predictable and easy to dispatch. :con:

carmatic
20th Mar 2004, 02:19 PM
hmm yeah i am trying to think of this... its something to do with the primary weapons... like while the sniper guy is all hitscan and the big guy's are all projectile, the tech has both hitscan and projectile functionality ... also the ranger has generally armor-bypassing attacks, while the gunner tends to hurt your armor, the tech has stuff that hurts and bypasses armor... i think the secondary fire of the shotgun and the duster goes straight through armor when they actually hit? not to mention the grenade launcher almost exclusively affect armor, or health.. i think, anyway...

similiarities:
tech and gunner - fire attacks (secondary shotgun for tech, flame grenades for gunner )
gunner and ranger - plain explosives(rockets for gunner, explosive grenades for ranger)
ranger and tech - umm hitscan weapons?

and oh if only when you hit someone directly with a grenade, they give this special 'shader' effect like theyre coated with the stuff the grenade was carrying... then that would make people accept direct grenade hit kills more easily...

Tapeworm
21st Mar 2004, 09:51 AM
No, but I was talking about classes on an individual basis, not what classes make the best team. You cant say im wrong and youre right. Obviously im biased toward Rangers and Gunners and youre biased towards GAY Techs :lol:


You sound bitter because you've been 0wned by Techs and you don't have enough skill to frag them :lol:

Oh and i use all 3 classes, anyone who says Techs are overpowered does not have a clue how to use Rangers or Gunners at all.

Also, if you think you can take a Juggernaut out in 2 EMP shots, you're wrong, go try it.

[V3]Folo
21st Mar 2004, 10:08 AM
I remember when I discovered the techs 2x hack ability. I thought to myself, "OMFOMF why would anyone want to use anything besides techs techs pwns they hax so fast!!!!!11!OMF!!1!1!one" I played tech EXCLUSIVELY for about a month afterwards. Then, out of spite for the snipers, I played as a Ranger, and was like "OMFOMF rangers are so fast!!! why would you not use a ranger?!?!/11" :lol: ...oh yeah, I play gunner sometimes too... :rolleyes:

Dead_Metal
21st Mar 2004, 10:31 AM
LMAO @ Folo, nice

Coomby
21st Mar 2004, 05:45 PM
Hahah.. OMFG look what I started, my posts are the greatest! They become to best flame wars ever! Really now, why do you guys care so much what I as an individual think? Do you love me? :fluffle:

Did anyone notice how my post was addressed to Brainiacus and only Brainiacus. I was talking to him, not you morons, with the exception of Šetta and carmatic.

Tapeworm, if you want to play it that way, then:

You sound bitter because you've been 0wned by Techs and you don't have enough skill to frag them Learn to read you ****ing moron.

Oh and i use all 3 classes, anyone who says Techs are overpowered does not have a clue how to use Rangers or Gunners at all. Holy ****, again learn to ****ing read you ****ing idiot!

Also, if you think you can take a Juggernaut out in 2 EMP shots, you're wrong, go try it. Your a ****ing moron. Did you go to school?

Hey Dead_Metal, ill fix your your avatar if you want.:B Remember you started the whole thing.

Oh no, Brainicus called Gunners meatballs, im so offended! :eek:

Coomby admits to writing in such a way to cause a mass flame war:clap: and admits it was fun:rockon:

K, really, I am sorry if I offended anyone.

-=McBean=-
21st Mar 2004, 06:14 PM
Coomby admits to writing in such a way to cause a mass flame war:clap: and admits it was fun:rockon:


I admit that you should stfu :D and I hope that did offend you :)

carmatic
21st Mar 2004, 06:31 PM
Did anyone notice how my post was addressed to Brainiacus and only Brainiacus. I was talking to him, not you morons, with the exception of Šetta and carmatic.


K, really, I am sorry if I offended anyone.

naah, dont worry, you didnt offend me! (hmm the first senseless post in this entire forum for me... )

Coomby
21st Mar 2004, 06:45 PM
and it continues!!:instagib:

Tapeworm
21st Mar 2004, 07:15 PM
Hahah.. OMFG look what I started, my posts are the greatest! They become to best flame wars ever! Really now, why do you guys care so much what I as an individual think? Do you love me? :fluffle:

Did anyone notice how my post was addressed to Brainiacus and only Brainiacus. I was talking to him, not you morons, with the exception of Šetta and carmatic.

Tapeworm, if you want to play it that way, then:

Learn to read you ****ing moron.

Holy ****, again learn to ****ing read you ****ing idiot!

Your a ****ing moron. Did you go to school?

Hey Dead_Metal, ill fix your your avatar if you want.:B Remember you started the whole thing.

Oh no, Brainicus called Gunners meatballs, im so offended! :eek:

Coomby admits to writing in such a way to cause a mass flame war:clap: and admits it was fun:rockon:

K, really, I am sorry if I offended anyone.



I did not flame you. Your post above was full of flaming. I would suggest you learn to tell the difference between flames and someone disagreeing with you, and also drop whatever attitude problem you have.

phil
21st Mar 2004, 07:49 PM
My penis is bigger than your penis tapey. :mad:

Also I encourage you all to watch this ( http://www.hellonetwork.com/demo/toysclub/video.asp?speed=hook300) while this thread is busy getting the old padlock.

Tapeworm
21st Mar 2004, 07:53 PM
omfg wtf stfu!!1 :mad:

no hottie sexx0riz0ring for u 2nite baby!1

aww bbqphil how can i stay mad @ U??!


i love u <3

<3 4 lyfe <3

phil
21st Mar 2004, 07:56 PM
:mad::tup:

Tapeworm
21st Mar 2004, 07:57 PM
i take ur :mad::tup: and raise you:


:rolleyes:

phil
21st Mar 2004, 08:00 PM
http://phillip.steele.home.comcast.net/nyd.gif

Tapeworm
21st Mar 2004, 08:04 PM
:angst++:

phil
21st Mar 2004, 08:06 PM
http://phillip.steele.home.comcast.net/not.jpg

Tapeworm
21st Mar 2004, 08:09 PM
/me boots phil out the thread


http://members.nuvox.net/~sfagan/funny/owned/owned28.gif

Dead_Metal
21st Mar 2004, 09:21 PM
uh, nothing is wrong with my avatar thank you. I like it as it is. And thats all that ****in matters when it comes to my avatar.

PF Prophet
21st Mar 2004, 09:36 PM
LOL funny **** :D

i owen u all :P

[V3]Folo
21st Mar 2004, 10:27 PM
What happened to this thread :(

I still don't think the techs are overpowered.

Coomby
21st Mar 2004, 10:51 PM
I promise Ill stop after this:boom::

Tapey, if these arn't flames, I dont know what are.

You sound bitter because you've been 0wned by Techs and you don't have enough skill to frag them FLAME!
Oh and i use all 3 classes, anyone who says Techs are overpowered does not have a clue how to use Rangers or Gunners at all. FLAME!
Also, if you think you can take a Juggernaut out in 2 EMP shots, you're wrong, go try it.DISAGREEMENT!

Um yes, I was flaming you becuase you flamed me (Get it?) and the attitude you say I have was in response to the attitude you think you dont have.:stick:

uh, nothing is wrong with my avatar thank you. I like it as it is. And thats all that ****in matters when it comes to my avatar.
Calm down Dead_Metal, it ok, really. Even tho you called me an idiot, I fixed your avatar anyway.:2thumb: (as if you'd use it, but you can look at it!:-))

[V3]Folo
21st Mar 2004, 10:56 PM
I fixed your avatar anyway

Wow, you cropped it :rolleyes:

Coomby
21st Mar 2004, 11:14 PM
Two things can balance this game, take away Tech's one shot char and reduce gas damage to Gunners. Oh ya, this has nothing to do with balance, but fragging teammates who run over trip and land mines should not cause negative team kill points. :rockon:

Folo, yes I did crop it, now bow down to me and thank me for the entertainment I am providing you...J/k. :con:

[V3]Folo
21st Mar 2004, 11:44 PM
Folo, yes I did crop it...

I just think that's it's funny that you actually did that :lol: I think the incendiary shotgun is ok as is (wide spread, short range, you actually have to be pretty close to get a 1-hit kill, and if they're moving)

Gas however, there should be some sort of gas-mask weapon or something that you have to use since it's more annoying that effective against semi-skilled players.

phil
22nd Mar 2004, 04:22 AM
I promise Ill stop after this:boom::

Tapey, if these arn't flames, I dont know what are.

Take my word for it, you don't know what flames are. :)


Um yes, I was flaming you becuase you flamed me (Get it?) and the attitude you say I have was in response to the attitude you think you dont have.:stick:

Even if you thought he flamed you, you should re-read the terms of service, you agreed to (http://support.beyondunreal.com/faq.php?article=10).


Calm down Dead_Metal, it ok, really. Even tho you called me an idiot, I fixed your avatar anyway.:2thumb: (as if you'd use it, but you can look at it!:-))

You made it worse.

In closing, please lurk more for your sake and our sake.

Tapeworm
22nd Mar 2004, 09:44 AM
Tapey, if these arn't flames, I dont know what are.


You apparently do not know what flames are then.


Um yes, I was flaming you becuase you flamed me


I didn't flame you, i'm not that stupid. You shouldn't start crying like a baby and trying to swear as many times as you can the second someone disagrees with you. Please, grow up.

{NoBull}Jem
22nd Mar 2004, 10:47 AM
I love these discussions because they invariably wind up with about an equal number of people saying one class is better than the others. As it should be.

I think this pretty much sums it up. ;)

W0RF
22nd Mar 2004, 11:50 AM
Folo, yes I did crop it, now bow down to me and thank me for the entertainment I am providing you...J/k. :con:
If by entertainment you mean eye-rolling annoyance, you're pretty close.

[LNS]Jubei
22nd Mar 2004, 11:53 AM
[QUOTE=Coomby]Two things can balance this game, take away Tech's one shot char and reduce gas damage to Gunners./QUOTE]

To get a one shot char you have to get in close,if you are an experienced player you can hear the tech approaching, avoiding his alt shotty fire,most techs jump in real close or use their jump jets,as reducing gas damage to gunners,i didn't see a gas mask on a gunners face. The game is perfectly balanced,if someone use a gas nade against you use you're dodge boost in the right direction,i had people firing 6 gas nades at me and i would still avoid them all to take them out with my shotty,this game is about timing and skill,use it and you'll do fine.

carmatic
22nd Mar 2004, 12:53 PM
if your lucky/skilled (mostly lucky) enough to land a grenade right on a player, you pretty much deserve a kill already...

the shotgun is the primary weapon of the tech, i think... it hits players which fit squarely into your reticle, and alt fire is a skill kind of thing, you need to either be able to work your way really close to an enemy , or know where he's gonna move next...

PF Prophet
22nd Mar 2004, 01:33 PM
oh btw i can get a 1 shot kill on any class with any other class just depends on how u hit them

head shot from a rocket will 1 hit kill a gunner(i know i have been on bouth ends) been span killed that way few times*grumbles*

also same is true with a incend grnade if u get a head shot with that they drop in most cases least ranger/tech do havent tested it on gunner yet

and a ranger well if u dont think they can get a 1 hit kill on any class then u dont know wtf ur talking about becose a head shot will KILL u nomatter ur class (as it should be)

yeah the tech has 2 wepps that do it but so do other classes ranger can 1 hit with the pistol altfire if its ahead shot (and u get lucky)
as well as in my exp ranger/tech takes a frag nade to the head they die agin havent tryed it on a gunner normly to bussy fighting the gunner to find out

i dont fear any class when im playing any other class infact i have fun no matter what class i use and am willing to take on any other class becouse the chance of my winning is about 50/50 just depends on whos laggings/whos lagging more and who aims better

myself i prefer to go aginst a gunner as a ranger then as the other 2 classes i know it sounds insane but up close i seem to win more with the ranger even if im bout dead when i get done :P
got a on shot kill on 3 techs other night as they tryed to hack a deploy on the dark rainy map using gunner rkt head shots work grate also got one with the concution grnade head shots with those do hert think being splatered DOWN is painfull :P

Dru998
22nd Mar 2004, 01:33 PM
The alt-shotty should be just toned down abit. So its not a full on 1 shot kill up close. It is kind of unfair that the tech gets a "gun" that is one shot kill. IMO if any class gets a close up one shot kill gun it should be the Gunner, since they are the slowest and would be the hardest to actually get close to the opponent. It is kinda dumb that the Tech gets a more powerful gun than the Gunner. Im not sure of the numbers exactly but, I think it takes something like 3 rockets(out of a clip of 5 mind you) dead on to kill a Tech with full health even up close. Something like 4 or 5 to kill a Gunner. It just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for me that one class should get such a powerful gun up close. Before anyone starts telling me that gunners have thier gernades. They do huge damage dead on, but thats just it, they are gernades not a gun. I have played a Tech to some extent and know that killing gunners is super easy. Double tap boost jump straight at the slow moving gunner and CHAR!. I feel cheap using that tactic because I just owned a Gunner with 1 shot. I mean come on now a GUNNER :eek: ! It's really not fair considering the Gunner is a slower moving class than the Tech.

Also, I have been in some games where entire teams where Techs. If you ever look a the majority of classes in any random game, there is mostly techs being played. Which IMO shows for it self that they might be slightly overpowered. This is just my opinion though. Im sure there a tons who don't agree with me(most likely people who play Techs and like thier weapons :rolleyes: ).

PF Prophet
22nd Mar 2004, 01:55 PM
The alt-shotty should be just toned down abit. So its not a full on 1 shot kill up close. It is kind of unfair that the tech gets a "gun" that is one shot kill. IMO if any class gets a close up one shot kill gun it should be the Gunner, since they are the slowest and would be the hardest to actually get close to the opponent. It is kinda dumb that the Tech gets a more powerful gun than the Gunner. Im not sure of the numbers exactly but, I think it takes something like 3 rockets(out of a clip of 5 mind you) dead on to kill a Tech with full health even up close. Something like 4 or 5 to kill a Gunner. It just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for me that one class should get such a powerful gun up close. Before anyone starts telling me that gunners have thier gernades. They do huge damage dead on, but thats just it, they are gernades not a gun. I have played a Tech to some extent and know that killing gunners is super easy. Double tap boost jump straight at the slow moving gunner and CHAR!. I feel cheap using that tactic because I just owned a Gunner with 1 shot. I mean come on now a GUNNER :eek: ! It's really not fair considering the Gunner is a slower moving class than the Tech.

Also, I have been in some games where entire teams where Techs. If you ever look a the majority of classes in any random game, there is mostly techs being played. Which IMO shows for it self that they might be slightly overpowered. This is just my opinion though. Im sure there a tons who don't agree with me(most likely people who play Techs and like thier weapons :rolleyes: ).

acctuly i have had ppl use that tactic aginst my gunner if ur skilled its not even an issue
u see them coming and dodge and blast there ass

and i have been hit plenty of times full on with that tactic and survived to endup killing the tech becouse he didnt think to follow up with some gass

its all about the tactis you use the tech is the easyest class thats the point look around at tribes1/2 there are menny using the same class becous its a class that is the middle ground in shifter x it was merc armmor in my exp i never used it alwase had my own configs i prefered

like any class based game theres gonna be a a class that more ppl use becouse its the easyest all around

Dead_Metal
22nd Mar 2004, 02:18 PM
thanks for messing with my avatar when it didn't need to be messed with, appreciate it. ass whole.

Babar
22nd Mar 2004, 02:27 PM
I dont get it ALL CLASSES ARE EQUAL!!! I have played many of times with all classes and i am seeing equality through it all. U cant stop an awesome Gunner in a close area and u cant stop an awesome Ranger in a open area. If a tech didnt have gas or shotgun alt fire he would be left in the dust in either of those 2 areas. I do believe that if you could max out ur skills at all three classes the ranger would be the strongest with quick movements and 100% sniper accuracy but hey stop fighting and start PLAYING!!!! :)

Demo_Boy
22nd Mar 2004, 02:34 PM
U cant stop an awesome Gunner in a close area and u cant stop an awesome Ranger in a open area. If a tech didnt have gas or shotgun alt fire he would be left in the dust in either of those 2 areas.

So I take that to mean that a Tech with gas and alt shotty can beat out a ranger and a gunner in those classes' optimal combat environment. How is that equal?

Tapeworm
22nd Mar 2004, 02:42 PM
So I take that to mean that a Tech with gas and alt shotty can beat out a ranger and a gunner in those classes' optimal combat environment. How is that equal?


Don't put words in his mouth. He basically implied that the shotgun and gas is there to give Techs an even chance, rather then being completely and utterly owned.

Gunners have rockets and flamethrower for close range, without a shotgun a Tech would be completely owned. At least with a shotgun he has a chance. Same applies to Ranger vs Tech in open areas, Ranger has sniper rifle and handgun, Tech has assault gun. The gas is designed for tight enclosed areas, anyone using it out in the open is wasting ammunition.

W0RF
22nd Mar 2004, 02:44 PM
Who said beat? Giving him a chance != beating the other guy. I spent more time dead than alive as a tech, I would argue how effective shotty and gas really are against someone with skill.

Babar
22nd Mar 2004, 02:50 PM
Im saying if your a good tech! the normal good ranger will somtimes jump right be side ur head in open area and if ur good enough ur alt shotgun will take 1 shot usually. Im by no means saying techs are the best or even better. IM ALSO SAYING ALL TECHS ARNT "GAS WHORES" OR "TURRET WHORES". Iam getting so sick about all the whining in XMP geez just because i used gas to take u out doesnt mean i am a noob.Rangers use sniper rifles and gunners use rockets and techs use gas and sometimes they can all be called cheap weapons. Everyone needs to stop judging a book by its cover. its easy to get away from gas so stop whining if u use all ur dodge energy and get stuck in my gas its ur fault not mine and it was a good move by me STOP UR WHINING im not refering to u demo boy heh. and demo boy if u still play alot contact xF heh. :)

carmatic
22nd Mar 2004, 03:17 PM
hmm if only theres a feature in xmp, that is something like... from day to day, some servers report to a master server about how well each class is doing, something like utstats, and the server then ups and down each weapon to ensure its an equal efficiency ... i.e.the good ol 'killed with vs killed while holding' thing in utstats now... and participitating game servers can download a little config from this main server to ensure all the weapons are perfectly balanced...dunno about the rest of the balance (speed, armor, health etc) but if the weapons are equal, the rest of the game should fall into place... also maybe point-wise, if there is a particular activity that seems to total to an unfair amount compared to others , it should be adjusted so players get points for participitation,not heroism, and the person with the highest score will convey an idea of eliteness
by the way , if you happen to spot a thread about ut2k4's onslaught with xmp, or they call it 'xon', i highly like that idea cuz ut2k4's vehicles are just so much more realistic than the pre-adolescent toyset (please dont flame me)you find in xmp...

Coomby
22nd Mar 2004, 04:20 PM
Phil (king of lurk) and Tapey, care to explain the definition of a flame then? Neither of you explained it, Mr. Know it alls. Phil, since you and Tapey love each other so much:fluffle:, I made you like him:) (This is a joke BTW, for all you easily offended people- its sad that I have to say this.):y5:

Tapey, well if it wasnt a flame it defiantly was an ATTACK. Dead_Metal and others, get this, when you attack me, I will attack you. That simple.

Dead_Metal im an ass hole, not an ass whole. Again with the name calling, do you have anger problems?

Now back to balance, a very skilled Tech with a super high frame rate, can take advantage of and own a very skilled Gunner with the same frame rate. Techs are faster than Gunners and can easily get up close to them. The Tech will eventally get close enough to make his 1 shot char, killing the slow Gunner instantly in that one shot. :mad: You call that a battle? I call that lame. Say that a direct SG char left a Gunner with full health and sheilds with 25% health, then the Tech would have to hit the Gunner a second time to kill him, or maybe the gunner would have killed the Tech in that time, who knows?. That way, at least the Gunner had a change to fight and some sort of battle would have taken place.:rl:

These are my opinions, deal with them!

PF Prophet
22nd Mar 2004, 05:18 PM
Now back to balance, a very skilled Tech with a super high frame rate, can take advantage of and own a very skilled Gunner with the same frame rate. Techs are faster than Gunners and can easily get up close to them. The Tech will eventally get close enough to make his 1 shot char, killing the slow Gunner instantly in that one shot. :mad: You call that a battle? I call that lame. Say that a direct SG char left a Gunner with full health and sheilds with 25% health, then the Tech would have to hit the Gunner a second time to kill him, or maybe the gunner would have killed the Tech in that time, who knows?. That way, at least the Gunner had a change to fight and some sort of battle would have taken place.:rl:

These are my opinions, deal with them!

dude chill first off

also if u think a gunner and tech with same fps/ping means the tech wins ur wrong only somebody who cant manuver will loose so easly

i fight as a gunner regularly and even a highly skiled tech only has a 50/50 chance at getting me main thing is to change dirrestions and never move in a strate line they cant hit u if they cant figuar out where ur gonna be

if u die so easly then well us suck and should probblymove on to another class

i play them all and there quite well balanced as long as u know how to move

this is also why menny people hate low grav they dont know how to take advantage of it
its all about adapting to the class/situation ur in insted of bitching about it

Tapeworm
22nd Mar 2004, 05:43 PM
Tapey, well if it wasnt a flame it defiantly was an ATTACK. Dead_Metal and others, get this, when you attack me, I will attack you. That simple.

I didn't attack you, i disagreed with you.


Now back to balance, a very skilled Tech with a super high frame rate, can take advantage of and own a very skilled Gunner with the same frame rate.

:lol:


Techs are faster than Gunners and can easily get up close to them. The Tech will eventally get close enough to make his 1 shot char, killing the slow Gunner instantly in that one shot. :mad: You call that a battle?


You know, Gunners have a really powerful close range weapon called a flamethrower, try using it sometime :) Also, Gunners can blow the crap out of Techs in close range if the Gunner has enough skill to actually aim his rockets properly.

I think you just need to learn to actually use Gunners correctly and you probably need target practice too if you're getting owned by Techs as close range. Also to paraphrase you; These are my opinions, deal with them!

Tapeworm
22nd Mar 2004, 05:48 PM
Oh also, you wanted to know what flames are? These are flames:



Did anyone notice how my post was addressed to Brainiacus and only Brainiacus. I was talking to him, not you morons, with the exception of Šetta and carmatic.

Tapeworm, if you want to play it that way, then:

Learn to read you ****ing moron.

Holy ****, again learn to ****ing read you ****ing idiot!

Your a ****ing moron. Did you go to school?

Coomby admits to writing in such a way to cause a mass flame war:clap: and admits it was fun:rockon:

carmatic
22nd Mar 2004, 05:48 PM
uhh when the tech gets too close to you, he would soon get into the range of your rockets where the rockets take so little time to reach him that he cannot dodge them, but are far away enough from you not to hurt you... i just thought that sort of evens them out... of course you'll need an aim as good as the guy your playing against to make it work that way, after all if he misses and you blast him with your rocket, yourel still gonna kill him...

one particular weak spot is like, when the gunner and the tech are both in the air, and the gunner has to wait for the tech to land on the ground to take advantage of the rocket's splash damage, while the tech can take advantage the predictable trajectory of a jump and the natural spread of the shotgun...

ummff but thats what the flamethrower is for, if you aim it nicely the effect is almost unimaginable (or im lacking imagination right now), while the tech's machinegun is just about useless against a proper gunner... and if you can guess where the tech is going to land, and when, your rockets are gonna be good... and yeah, just because the gunner is big and huge doesnt mean that its impossible for them to dodge anything...plus when im trying to go in for those 1 shot char kills, i usually get charred myself by the flamethrower... but the best solution will still be that daily-auto-server-balancing thing... it will make everyone say ' if everyone else can use this weapon , why cant i?'

Coomby
22nd Mar 2004, 05:53 PM
Notice my underlined comments,

dude chill first off

also if u think a gunner and tech with same fps/ping means the tech wins (you said this, not me) ur wrong only somebody who cant manuver will loose so easly

i fight as a gunner regularly and even a highly skiled tech only has a 50/50 chance at getting me(true) main thing is to change dirrestions and never move in a strate line they cant hit u if they cant figuar out where ur gonna be

if u die so easly(didnt say I died easily, you said that, I been killed by 1 shot char maybe 4 times, but the point is that it 'can' kill a gunner in 1 shot.) then well us suck and should probblymove on to another class(STFU Loser, I dont need to hear your ****)

i play them all and there quite well balanced(According to you, that is) as long as u know how to move

this is also why menny people hate low grav they dont know how to take advantage of it
its all about adapting to the class/situation ur in insted of bitching about it(this thread is about balance and I saying what I think, got a problem with that bitch?)Its no wonder why I say (These are my opinions, deal with them!) when these are the kinds of responses I get.:rolleyes:
I know words are interpreted differently by everyone but how you can get it so wrong is beyond me.

Tapeworm
22nd Mar 2004, 06:25 PM
Coomby, everyone here has made well-thought and intelligent posts that are both factual and informed. You don't do yourself any favours when instead of actually debating you just say, "STFU Loser" or "You're a ****ing moron". You can roll your eyes all you want, but your opinions count for nothing compared to all the people who are actually stating facts when all you can do is whine about framerates.

carmatic
22nd Mar 2004, 06:27 PM
i want someone to write a scripty thingie that does the game-auto-balancing-daily now!or as soon as they can...cuz i'll like it alot...

statistics:

killed with that gun vs killed by someone using that gun - how good you are at that weapon compared to other people
killed by someone holding that gun vs killed while holding that gun - how much practice you'll need using that gun
kills with that gun vs killed while holding that gun - your absolute skill at that gun

or something like that i really need sleep good nite zzz

::edit:: *wakey wakey* its 10:37 am , good morning world!!

now, if everyone's 'absolute skill' with that weapon averages out to be equal to those of other guns, then we wouldnt need to argue about stuff like that...
what would work is a network of servers that share their player statistics with a main server that does some simple maths , writes a config file, and puts it up for download by the game servers...

Yellow5
22nd Mar 2004, 06:34 PM
Chill the flames or I will put the fire out for you.

Disagree all you want, but if I see people calling each other name calling in here again I will RO or ban.

Coomby
22nd Mar 2004, 06:49 PM
Tapeworm, live in denial all you want, you chose to be the ass hole and continue still to be one. This is the first thing you ever said to me:

You sound bitter because you've been 0wned by Techs and you don't have enough skill to frag them :lol:

Oh and i use all 3 classes, anyone who says Techs are overpowered does not have a clue how to use Rangers or Gunners at all.

Also, if you think you can take a Juggernaut out in 2 EMP shots, you're wrong, go try it.

The first two quotes you wrote are attacks. The last is a disagreement, to spell it out for you.

Whats your problem?
You know, Gunners have a really powerful close range weapon called a flamethrower, try using it sometime (Really, your a genius!) Also, Gunners can blow the crap out of Techs in close range if the Gunner has enough skill to actually aim his rockets properly.

I think you just need to learn to actually use Gunners correctly and you probably need target practice too if you're getting owned by Techs as close range. (uncalled for, go be a troll somewhere else)

I just read what you wrote Tape, the is a sad day for for you, attack after flame, after attack! You need to read what I wrote before saying things like this 'when all you can do is whine about framerates.' Explain to me where I wrote this? Tape, I hate you, do not write or even think about me.

Please people, refrain yourselfs from posting anything to do with me! Whats the deal? Why do you care so much what I THINK? Im not a conformist, I dare to be bold and say what I think! Thanks

Coomby
22nd Mar 2004, 06:51 PM
Yellow, I hadnt yet seen youre message, im only reacting to prior flames, sorry:boom:

Tapeworm
22nd Mar 2004, 07:42 PM
You really don't learn, but alas i'll try and clear a few things up..


Tapeworm, live in denial all you want, you chose to be the ass hole and continue still to be one. This is the first thing you ever said to me:

You sound bitter because you've been 0wned by Techs and you don't have enough skill to frag them :lol:

Oh and i use all 3 classes, anyone who says Techs are overpowered does not have a clue how to use Rangers or Gunners at all.

Also, if you think you can take a Juggernaut out in 2 EMP shots, you're wrong, go try it.


The first two quotes you wrote are attacks. The last is a disagreement, to spell it out for you.


The first paragraph in my quote was a sarcastic comment, much in the spirit of your "Techs are gay :lol:" comment, which came before mine. I assumed you'd get the joke.

The second part of the statement where i say that anyone claiming Techs are overpowered doesn't know how to use Gunners or Rangers was not an attack, it was a statement. It was not directed at you, but everyone. If you took offense it's not my fault but my statement still stands. Every single complaint i've seen about Techs has overlooked the advantages Gunners/Rangers have in the situations presented to prove that Techs are too powerful.



You need to read what I wrote before saying things like this 'when all you can do is whine about framerates.' Explain to me where I wrote this?

Ok then:


Now back to balance, a very skilled Tech with a super high frame rate, can take advantage of and own a very skilled Gunner with the same frame rate.

Also, finally..


Please people, refrain yourselfs from posting anything to do with me! Whats the deal? Why do you care so much what I THINK? Im not a conformist, I dare to be bold and say what I think! Thanks


.. This is a discussion forum. If you don't want people to read your posts and reply stating what they agree/disagree with then stop posting. It's really that simple. Can we get back on topic now please? I'd appreciate no further flames whenever i or anyone else disagrees with you :hmm:

Coomby
22nd Mar 2004, 08:48 PM
Believe what ever warped reality you want about your actions. I know I do mine.:lol:

Really, read and understand the words Tape!! Ive tried to make it as simple as possibly just for you:)

Now back to balance, a very skilled Tech with a super high frame rate, can take advantage of and own a very skilled Gunner with the same frame rate. Get it, I said 'same' as in equal. That was a diffucult thing to understand I know.


Please people, refrain yourselfs from posting anything to do with me 'Me' as in me personally, flames,etc. Feel free to talk about the issue I am discussing, but leave me out. "It's really that simple." To quote someone who misconstrues eveything I say.

You think you're so clever quoting me out of context, trying to make it appear as if you are innocent and you did nothing to provoke the flames you caused.

I will not respond to anything else you have to say Tape.

Dru998
22nd Mar 2004, 10:42 PM
Are we on Jerry Springer? :rolleyes:

I quote a popular song called "Where is the love" by Black Eyed Peas. No really where is it?

P.S. Oh and excuse my n00bness but what is RO?

Haha on a lighter note what the hell does P.S. actually mean? LOL!! :D

Yellow5
23rd Mar 2004, 12:53 AM
RO = Read Only forum access. You can read but ya can't post. :)

PF Prophet
23rd Mar 2004, 01:14 AM
Are we on Jerry Springer? :rolleyes:

I quote a popular song called "Where is the love" by Black Eyed Peas. No really where is it?

P.S. Oh and excuse my n00bness but what is RO?

Haha on a lighter note what the hell does P.S. actually mean? LOL!! :D

p.s. post scrypt ;)

:)

Saito
23rd Mar 2004, 02:23 AM
Are we on Jerry Springer? :rolleyes:



No we are on teh xmp forums, people are more opinionated, less informed, and more self righteous than on springer.... plz don't inslult springer ;)

carmatic
23rd Mar 2004, 04:51 AM
hmm this is why i always use this 'national whatever advisor' style of writing , my sadistic secondary school english language teacher taught me about how different things can be conceptually different to different people, and why its important to be clear... because he's clearly gone madly sadistic and we dared not offend him...

Tapeworm
23rd Mar 2004, 05:58 AM
Really, read and understand the words Tape!! Ive tried to make it as simple as possibly just for you:)

Now back to balance, a very skilled Tech with a super high frame rate, can take advantage of and own a very skilled Gunner with the same frame rate.

Get it, I said 'same' as in equal. That was a diffucult thing to understand I know.


My original point still stands, i don't see what you were trying to prove by highlighting the word "same"? You keep saying i'm not reading or understanding your posts, but i really don't think you're reading and understanding mine because you don't appear to fully grasp the conversation? :con: If you want i could just take all the posts of mine that you quoted and highlight random words to somehow void whatever you're trying to prove?


'Me' as in me personally, flames,etc. Feel free to talk about the issue I am discussing, but leave me out. "It's really that simple." To quote someone who misconstrues eveything I say.

You think you're so clever quoting me out of context, trying to make it appear as if you are innocent and you did nothing to provoke the flames you caused.



I did not flame you though, i've already explained this in a previous post... I thought it was pretty clear to anyone who read it. I really think you should stop being so concerned with people somehow quoting you out of context (which has not been done, but if you want i can explain to you what quoting out of context is?) and be more concerned about you apparent paranoia and schizophrenia which is becoming increasingly evident in your posts. Are you feeling ok?

You appear to be thinking i'm somehow out to get you? Hiding my Mr.Hyde-like evil personality behind a facade of somehow innocent out of context quoting? Provoking you into flaming me whilst maintaining some kind of sweet innocent image? Now i know you're using the whole "He's provoking me! I'm merely flaming him in retaliation!" line, but that only really works if the person you are accusing actually flamed you in the first place. Maybe the voices don't like me? You appear to be experiencing delusional and illogical patterns of thinking aswell as emotional, behavioral and intellectual disturbances.

As with all dementia praecox victims it is advised to take caution, so a swift removal of the :lol: and :rolleyes: smileys would be advised, aswell as increased use of the censorbot. I also ask that you refrain from the delusions of persecution which you so poorly attempt to defend with a lack of apparent logic and reason.

Last but not least, i hope that one day you can finally come to terms with this.. problem. I wish you the best of luck in life and hopefully one day we can sleep together in the same bed once more.

W0RF
23rd Mar 2004, 07:32 AM
I will not respond to anything else you have to say Tape.
:clap: \o/ :2thumb: :rockon:

Dru998
23rd Mar 2004, 12:12 PM
Well, now that I know what RO is (thanks Yellow5 :D ) . Maybe you could RO this post.

Hmmm.... alittle off topic and overboard Tape? I don't know if you have noticed but we are in a game forum. That being said, I for one do not want to hear(or read) your bizarre prognosis’s. Take this elsewhere. Thanks.

Tapeworm
23rd Mar 2004, 01:37 PM
hu·mor ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hymr)
n.

1. The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could not see the humor of the situation.
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement: a writer skilled at crafting humor.
3. The ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical, incongruous, or absurd. See Synonyms at wit1.


Anyway, thanks for ruining the joke Dru.

Wynther
23rd Mar 2004, 01:44 PM
Well said Dru. This thread is to voice opinions, not to find flaws in others opinions.

In any case, my opinion is that class balance really isnt an issue. Each class is better in certain situations than the others. If on defense, i use tech's, and if its an open map, I'll use a ranger. Gunners arent really my style. They have good weaponry and all, but i cant stand going so damn slow :rolleyes: . I also think one of the major reasons a lot of ppl choose tech is not because of their weapons, but their hacking speed. Every time I walk up to a gen or a door with a ranger i find myself looking for a tech on my team to help, so im not a sitting duck for 15 seconds. And if you run out of personal energy? It can take forever.

One thing that might be a possible change that i'd be interested in trying is to reduce the amount of power gens give you to reduce turret spamming. I must admit, ive done it myself many times and ppl always hate me for it. But I dont think it would change a whole lot in the game, it might force another player to stay behind and help with defense, but nothing major. It would also reduce the amount of 2-minute games where 2 rangers take artys in the first 30 seconds. The opposing team would have a longer time limit to take them out.

But anyway, im rambling. In closing, id like to say this: classes dont need to be balanced. I think the players should more closely scrutinize themselves and find a class that suits them best and practice practice practice. I play only the tech and ranger atm. I leave the gunner for those who know what theyre doing. Anyway, good luck in future games guys.

Coomby
23rd Mar 2004, 04:59 PM
Thank you for allowing everyone a glimpse inside your disturbed and creepy mind :eek: Coomby cringes at the horror he has just read.:shake:

Tapeworm
23rd Mar 2004, 05:15 PM
The fact you refer to yourself in the first person is alarming, this relatively rare disorder in which the usual integrity of the personality breaks down and two or more independent personalities emerge is relatively common in people experiencing schizophrenia. This dissasociative disorder may be caused by severe trauma in early childhood, most typically extreme, repeated physical, sexual, and/or emotional abuse.

Do you have a sore anus?

Also, do you suffer from stress? Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), widely accepted as a major mental illness affecting 8% of the general population in the United States, is closely related to Dissociative Disorders. In fact, 80-100% of people diagnosed with a Dissociative Disorder also have a secondary diagnosis of PTSD. The personal and societal cost of trauma disorders is extremely high. Recent research suggests the risk of suicide attempts among people with trauma disorders may be even higher than among people who have major depression.

I know you don't like me much, but i really don't want to contribute to your suicidal tendancies.

If you want i can rub lotion on your anus?

carmatic
23rd Mar 2004, 05:36 PM
guys please stop making yellow5 want to close this thread even more... i know it sounds funny but its a game topic, and you guys might actually give all gamers (including me) a bad name online (hence i wish for it not to happen)

classes should be balanced, unless you are seeing xmp as a specialty beyond killing people normally and instead dedicated for a team to win, i.e. some classes are never meant to kill, but then again , this statement that the tech is overpowered is kind of the opposite of that...

hence i think we really need this daily-auto-balancing-masterserver style thing in xmp...

Dead_Metal
23rd Mar 2004, 05:47 PM
I think the name of the game is to just ignore Coomby

Coomby
23rd Mar 2004, 06:04 PM
Carmatic, if you think its funny, you are alone. Coomby prays to God and Jesus Christ.:o

Yellow5
23rd Mar 2004, 06:38 PM
Ok time to close this one up.

PLEASE guys, I know it's tough to stop once you feel someone has done or said something wrong to you, but be the better man and leave it. The XMP community is small enough as it is, let's not make it worse.