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RegularX
20th Feb 2004, 09:13 AM
I'm updating this because I'm merging the xpak code and the freehold code into a new project called "Unreal XL"

The xpaks will be a complete rewrite. Adrenaline mutes like Heater and Cooler will probably be combined, and game tweaks like the Adrenovores will be reworked. All of this will be combined into 2 or 3 ubermutes to config them all.

A few mutes/functionality might get dropped, like Instant Weapon, since they're done much better in other mutes.

The "Magnum" weapons are going to get a complete redesign, but will be pretty similar. I will probably limit the number of custom weapons as I've learned I really need to at least reskin them for people to grok that they are changed and too many weapons will just get overly complicated.

It's possible that the core weapons will be left alone, and that the "Magnum" or "XL" stuff will be done with weapon augments instead.

Vehicle mutes/augments are a large possibility.

New mutes include teamplay mutes like Chat Protection, Gimp, and probably a team balancer. I might try to make a Campaign mutator based off the Riftwar code.

The Freehold code is going to form a base for an augment/loadout system that won't really be in a mutator - but in new gametypes (DM XL, CTF XL, INV XL, etc). People can select a loadout of two weapons, one augment for each weapon, and two personal augments (one active, one passive). Each loadout has a cost associated with it, and every respawn the cost is deducted from your score - same with buying new ammo (which you should be able to do by running through a weapons locker).

New rules/tweaks will be in each XL mode as well (like in CTF XL, flags in a home position might heal nearby players, etc. ).

Also, planned gametypes outside of XL:

Grind - going to port and modify the existing code.
Blink - a sniper mod where you are invisible if you a) have ammo and b) aren't moving fast.
Faith - Team DM where one member of your team is a Chosen One. Kills make the Chosen One and the Team more powerful, but if you feel the Chosen One isn't doing a good enough job you can sacrifice him to your god. Or something like that.

Sounds like a lot, I know - but most of this is actually already written. The XPak code needs to be redone from the ground up, but I'll be using the original as a guide. FH has code for the weapons, augments, loadout, etc. Grind is more or less done and Blink is nearly there.

RegularX
18th Mar 2004, 08:36 AM
I got Blink abut 90% running last night. I just need to tweak the Bot AI.

EvilDrWong
18th Mar 2004, 04:51 PM
Sounds rad! Ill test!! :D

Postal
18th Mar 2004, 07:59 PM
Sounding good, Im sure it will get a spot on my hard drive.

RegularX
21st Mar 2004, 02:09 PM
http://inkless.com/unrealxl/akimbo1.jpg

EvilDrWong
21st Mar 2004, 03:01 PM
Oh come on. You cant just post a screen like that and NOT attach the mute!

RegularX
21st Mar 2004, 04:14 PM
Oh come on. You cant just post a screen like that and NOT attach the mute!
http://inkless.com/unrealxl/akimbo2.jpg

Postal
21st Mar 2004, 05:00 PM
Eveyone knows akimbo stoped being cool back in Unreal, Quads the way to go, 4 seperate weapons.

RegularX
22nd Mar 2004, 08:59 AM
Well, there's always shoulders :)

I still have some effects stuff to figure out, especially online - but getting the weapons to attach at least mostly correctly (some weapons seem to enjoy being at odd angles for the offhand still) was more or less the final piece.

This will almost certainly not be a mutator, there's so much new pawn code now that I'll probably subclass pawn again to add in the rest of the tricks that might be in store for XL.

Also, I was hoping not to require specialized weapon code, but the native engine has other thoughts about that...

Next step is write the Weapon/Augment config screen. This will be a good primer for porting both Riftwar and DFO over as well, since they're both pretty GUI intensive.

Postal
22nd Mar 2004, 06:15 PM
Whats a Nali for then? Back in Unreal there was this fun weapon, the Quad Quadshot. 4 4 barrel shotguns.

soldat
22nd Mar 2004, 06:25 PM
how about 10... one for each finger? hmm.. that might be something i should look into... modelling hands and attaching weapons to each finger

RegularX
22nd Mar 2004, 06:54 PM
considering their disappearance in UT2004, I guess the Nali weren't worth much :)

They would make a killer player model though...

Postal
22nd Mar 2004, 06:59 PM
Allright, lets me realistic. Pistol in each hand(do you think you could realy fire 2 SMG's or rifles at the same time?)

Then 2 shoulder mounted guns

Thats 4

Have a torso strap that holds up another 2 guns under the armpits.

6

Torso mounted rocket pod, 7

Thigh straps hold on 2 more weapons, wouldl have to be low recoil, lasers? 9

Then youre crouch mounted machine gun.

Thats 10, and with out resorting to silly finger mounted weapons.

EvilDrWong
22nd Mar 2004, 11:19 PM
sounds like mechwarrior to me ;)

RegularX
22nd Mar 2004, 11:25 PM
Then youre crouch mounted machine gun.

Dude, that's the philosophy by which I live my life. Just not sure it translates well into a HUD...

SamMaster
25th Mar 2004, 10:36 AM
by then you'd see all weapon and no enemies

Postal
26th Mar 2004, 04:53 PM
what do you think the hat switch is for?

RegularX
29th Mar 2004, 12:48 PM
quick updates:

Done:

-Akimbo Weapon code for Players
-Augment code for weapons
-Passive Augments for pawns
-Active Augments for pawns (press button, activates augment and drains adrenaline ... press again - deactivates and stops draining)
-Loadout screen for Left Weapon, Right Weapon, Weapon Augments, Brain - Chest - Legs augments. Originally I planned on one pool for all augments, but with the number of possible augments, I think it would get unwiedly.
-Some HUD updates (ammo on left/right health in the middle)
-Netcode for Akimbos, Loadout, Weapon Augs, PassiveAugs

In Progress
-Netcode for Active Augs (easy)
-Bots holding and to an extent using akimbos
-Online HUD displaying Left Weapon projectiles on the left, not the right
-More Minor HUD tweaks
-More augments

Later On
-New vehicle subclasses
-New Adrenaline rules (probably Adrenovore style)
-More augments
-better economy rules
-more gametypes

If I get some more non-sucky content, might have a beta for WoDders later this week.

This week I might also get over my fears of the mutator GUI and start getting the mutes together.

EvilDrWong
29th Mar 2004, 03:46 PM
on no! not an economy! :( You're tellin me that ive gotta pay extra for the black market anthrax missiles?

RegularX
29th Mar 2004, 03:50 PM
the cost of any item will be configurable via the ini file (as will adding/removing items) ...

I'll probably do a beta where everything costs about a nickel and you start with like 50 grand, just so people can play with everything.

Postal
29th Mar 2004, 04:30 PM
Augments? Sounds like you got Deus Ex 3 on youre hands.

RegularX
29th Mar 2004, 04:35 PM
There is a touch of Deus Ex going on here - the active augments work very similar to how BioMods did.

SamMaster
29th Mar 2004, 06:00 PM
looks cool

RegularX
30th Mar 2004, 08:36 AM
K, well the bots are dutiful holding onto both weapons now and it turns out my left side weapon effect bug was limited to the blasted Shock Rifle.

So tonight I think I'll try to get the shock rifle working, add in the sniper rifle and maybe take another stab at the link fire (god I really hate that thing). If I get a decent subset of weapons working I'll post a beta for people to play with, then probably move on to the mutators. (I'm hoping to get back to DFO this weekend)

RegularX
30th Mar 2004, 09:22 AM
OK - I'm looking at the LinkFire class and I'm thinking this...

Kill the link gun, bring back the Aura Rifle from the xpaks in the form of the NAN (Nanite Aura Normalizer or something) Rifle. The NAN Rifle will detect if the vehicle, player or node is a friendly or not. If it is, it will heal that person/thing (or increase their shields). If it isn't, it will drain them and recharge the NAN's power supply. (this is a bit different from the Aura Rifle which wasn't team aware).

It would remove linking, but keep an item which is both a weapon and a healer.

RegularX
1st Apr 2004, 09:00 AM
Minor updates (iow - I'm at work and bored :) ):

Created the NAN Fire last night, and in the process fixed the ModeDoTick/WeaponTick serverside issues. Note to others - just because you see some replication routines in Epic code doesn't mean that they'll work (even if used in the same way...)

Also fixed the ammo consumption for the Rocket loading and Bio Charged Fire (which for now, since HoldFire isn't work, just shoots a bunch of the smaller bioglobs).

It occurs to me that to really test the NAN Rifle, I'll need to have some team modes added in. So, now, for the upcoming preview, I'll probably have to do the following:

-Fix the Active Augs online
-Add in some more augs in general
-Add in the Sniper Rifle and AvRil
-Add in one or more Team modes
-Take a stab at new Armor and Adrenaline rules
-Try to get at least a good portion of the mutator stuff in

SamMaster
1st Apr 2004, 02:29 PM
This mod is going to be good. I can feel it.

RegularX
2nd Apr 2004, 08:30 AM
Well I hope so Sam :)

Active Augs work online now. I fixed up the Shock Rifle fire a bit, but it needs more online tweaking and I might have discovered a similar bug with the Rocket Launcher, but these are getting easier and easier to fix. Mostly down to tweaking fires to fit the akimbos (like when shockproj's explode, etc).

I cleaned up the zoom last night and it probably merits mention. Since I thought it would be confusing to have say, your right weapon's alt fire zoom while the other one say, fires a rockets, I decided to just put it on Player Controller itself. IOW, you can always zoom, at the touch of a keybind, with any weapon. There will probably be brain augments to enhance this (nightvision, enemy info, etc). Alt Fire of the Sniper rifle will probably end up being the "moddable" one, whereas the Primary fire will remain the same.

RegularX
2nd Apr 2004, 09:52 AM
sorry for the brief and silly non-existent poll. I started writing but then realized that I really should start on Team DM before the others...

Postal
3rd Apr 2004, 07:42 AM
Tell us about these augs.

RegularX
3rd Apr 2004, 11:09 AM
http://inkless.com/unrealxl/loadout.gif

My currently bare bones loadout screen.

You can see you can have 2 weapons, 2 augs for those weapons and 3 augs otherwise. Augs are either Brain, Chest or Skeletal. My selected Brain aug is Invisibility, which is an active aug. To use that, I just hit "1" on the keyboard, and it will use any adrenaline I currently have ( you don't need 100 ). To turn it off, I hit one again.

The Chest and Skeletal augs are both passive. Body Type II increases my health/health max and Cybernetic Legs (once I write it) will increase my jumping, running and decrease falling damage.

The only weapon aug I have is spider mines for the assault rifle.



http://inkless.com/unrealxl/xl1.jpg

And I just included this because it looks cool.

carmatic
5th Apr 2004, 11:30 PM
hmm i was just wondering... now we need 4 mouse buttons or something , one for each firemode for each weapon? like the screenshot showed the rocket launcher and the shock rifle together... i want to do a spiral rocket thing and a shock combo at the same time...?

RegularX
6th Apr 2004, 09:30 AM
The way it works is that your next/prev keys hide or show your left/right weapon. So hit next weapon, your left weapon shows, click it again and it hides and the same with prev and the right weapon.

If a weapon is up, it reacts to the fire / alt fire. So if you had both a rocket launcher up and the shock rifle, and pressed alt fire - the rocket launcher would load a new rocket and the shock rifle would fire a shock sphere.

Now, a few things have been tweaked to adjust for the akimbo. You can't currently "strum", holding both buttons is the same as primary fire - this was to work around various issues with spamming out weapon fires, and there isn't much notion of held fires, so modes like the BioRifle's alt fire is getting tweaked. Hopefully this won't change gameplay on them much, and might be able to get these back in at a later date.

RegularX
8th Apr 2004, 08:59 AM
Been a bit knocked out by a chest cold courtesy o my girlfriend, but have managed to get some stuff done. I was planning on having the preview ready last night, but unfortunately I ended up re-writing a core portion of the inventory code, much of the weapon aug framework, and spent nearly two hours trying to figure out the best workaround to Epic's odd use of the Attachment class (which controls the gun model in third person) to spawn online effects for the firemode (which normally doesn't care about the gun model in third person) ... but now the Minigun HE works online, and anyone who wants to write new Mingun Alt Fires can update the hit effect just by putting a variable into the Augment class.

So now I have:

- True akimbo weapons.
- Loadout screen
- Active Augs which use adrenaline and can be turned on/off whenever.
- Passive Augs which modify the player
- Tool Augs which can do things like, fire a grappler at a small cost of adrenaline.
- Weapon Augs which can update/swap a firemode
- A handful of beta-worthy augs including HE Rounds, Invisibility, MagnoGrappler, CyberLegs.
- Updated Shield Rules, less than 100 shields = percentage of damage which is absorbed, rest goes to pawn
- Updated Adrenaline Rules, taking and doing damage increases adrenaline
- Updated versions of Deathmatch, TDM, Invasion and Onslaught to support the above.

For the preview I need to:
- Clean up some log and Accessed None code
- Clean up some augs, probably add a couple more
- Finish the basic functionality of the Loadout screen (complete descriptions, cost, etc)

Which wouldn't take long, but tonight I have to clean/do taxes - and all weekend is entertaining out-of-towners, so I might not get to it until Sunday. I'll shoot for tonight, but it's pretty iffy.

What I'd like to do is get a beta out, let you guys pound on it, and then get to work on the mutators. Then I'll add the mutes in, let you guys pound on those while I take up concerns with the XL stuff, and finish up the remaining gametypes, weapons and augments (the beta would probably be about half of the total planned).

RegularX
12th Apr 2004, 09:22 PM
It's not as clean as I wanted it, but if it doesnt crash too fast, it's playable.

Preview/Beta thread here: http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?p=1429222#post1429222

Fallen Angel
13th Apr 2004, 07:42 AM
sexeh =o . v. Nice

RegularX
13th Apr 2004, 06:36 PM
Tanks. Now that I fixed the PR zip, it can even be tried out :)

JaFO
14th Apr 2004, 01:07 PM
The idea does sound neat.

Questions :
= is 'akimbo' a standard-augment or a passive one that needs to be acquired ?
Another option would be if the 'basic' features allow you to pair 'normal' & 'light' weapons, while you'd need the 'augment' for the heavier weapons like the sniperrifle & redeemer.
I think 'superweapons' should never be done 'akimbo' ... or it might become an 'advanced' augment.


= any chance of species-specific augments or a chance of a 'discount' if an augment is related to a species-specific skill/ability ?
Example :
Juggernauts have high health stats + damage-reduction
obviously any technology they develop is based on these features
likewise a species that is good at jumping is more likely to research augments that are somehow related to jumping

And finally :
what will happen to Riftwar ?

RegularX
14th Apr 2004, 01:20 PM
The idea does sound neat.

Questions :
= is 'akimbo' a standard-augment or a passive one that needs to be acquired ?
Another option would be if the 'basic' features allow you to pair 'normal' & 'light' weapons, while you'd need the 'augment' for the heavier weapons like the sniperrifle & redeemer.


Akimbo is standard. Everyone gets to pick two weapons from the loadout. The balancer is cost. Most weapons will be purchaseable by near everyone, but the augments will vary greatly in cost depending on their power/usefulness. This way people can get a core pair of weapons they are comfy with, and power up with the augments as they score money.


I think 'superweapons' should never be done 'akimbo' ... or it might become an 'advanced' augment.


That's the current plan - the superweapons will be expensive augments. If you played the original Freehold for UT, the Thermonukes are a good comparison.


= any chance of species-specific augments or a chance of a 'discount' if an augment is related to a species-specific skill/ability ?
Example :
Juggernauts have high health stats + damage-reduction
obviously any technology they develop is based on these features
likewise a species that is good at jumping is more likely to research augments that are somehow related to jumping


Possibly, but this would be down the road. I want to get a good core framework for the augments and weapons (I'm really hoping that people will write new augments/weapons/etc for UXL), and then maybe look at variations like these.


And finally :
what will happen to Riftwar ?


I wanted to cut my teeth on some things before porting RW to 2k4, and an update to the xpaks, which will be the mutator side of this project, is long overdue.

There is a good chance that the 2k4 version will use this as a framework for the additional stuff I want to add to it ( which dovetails into the other question... )

Good questions JaFo - love to get your feedback on this (and I have more stuff coming up in the next month or so ... ) ... I might repost this to the INA thread just to get these questions out.

A_Rimmerlister
15th Apr 2004, 01:34 AM
Any chance of keybinds for the activate/deactivate augments ?
I think locking them to 1-3 is going to cause problems for people that don't use the default weapon-keys.

I was going to suggest adding basic/medium/advanced variants of the different augments, but the 'bodytype'-augment seems to suggest you've thought of that one already.

I wonder if the 'vision-augment' (aka 'wallhack' ;)) from Dx2 is possible in this engine ... or would that be too overpowered ?

I think augments that 'counter' the effects of certain others would become quite useful.
For example to counter a 'cloak' one could have 'enhanced hearing' (like XIII has with it's "tap tap tap" on the hud to show where the sound is coming from) ...

The various weapon-mods in Dx2 (refire-rate, ammo-scavenger, damage-enhancer, suppressor) would be nice to have as well.

carmatic
15th Apr 2004, 06:30 AM
impressive suggestions...im trying to think of something, but all i can think of is the rocket launcher's homing ability , for some reason... hmm...

RegularX
15th Apr 2004, 08:57 AM
I'm hoping not to just keybind the keys to toggle augs, toggle weapons, toggle zoom, and show loadout - I'd like to set them up as a custom key interaction so that they don't have to conflict with existing keysets. This is something which has kept me from using keybinds much, and I could really use it for both Riftwar and DFO (another thread in this forum).

I can look into DX2's see through walls, I've read some threads about mutators which do similar tricks, most of the problems seem to occur online. Various other versions of DX biomods will likely be making appearance, like instead of Ammo Scavenger there might be an endocrine aug Ammo Converter, which lets you add ammo even if it's of a different type (not quite sure if that will fly, but we'll see :) ). I like the notion of a spidey sense or sixth sense aug.

Some augs will probably overlap to give people more flexibility, so there might be an invisibility mod in both the brain and endocrine sections, and variants of augments will be there too, so like Partial Invisibility might be available, and it will be a cheaper version of full Invis.

Right now, because of the way the akimbo setup works, the RL's homing lock isn't working, but there will probably be a heatseeker aug for it (and it's homing lock might be salvageable if people want it). There's already a vehicleseeker aug for it.