Steam is bollox

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Feb 26, 2001
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FFS, why??? This software is a joke. Its removed my HL.exe and I cant launch unless I run steam first. I want to play NS, but it wont let me because it cant see it and wont download it automaticly. What a waste of time, I'm not spending 2 hours to get a ****ing mod working.

Bleh!!!!
 

Bhruic

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May 26, 2002
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Yeah, I was pretty damn unimpressed with it too. The last thing I want is developers forcing me to install their software, and then not letting me have any control over how it works. Almost enough to make me want to boycott HL2, except it'll likely be a good game. Oh well.

Bh
 

spm1138

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Aug 10, 2001
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I haven't had the courage to try it yet because of all the bad things I've read about it on the Firearms forums.
 

anaemic

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Jan 7, 2002
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the guy who invented bit torrent works on the steam team.
it suddently all makes sence doesnt it...
 

Keganator

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Jun 19, 2001
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Well, again, what version of the steam client did you download? The 100k client, or the full client? The reason why you have no hl.exe is probably because you didn't download the full client with half life. You have to run half life first and get the half life software before you try natural selection. If you had followed the instructions on the website on how to install and play the new NS beta, you wouldn't be having these kinds of problems. Don't blame Steam for your own mistakes. :p
 

Freon

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Jan 27, 2002
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Keg, you're not supposed to blame the users when a software is badly written. A game should be played easily, without having to install GBs of software and reading tons of manuals, FAQs and forum posts. Steam is the buggiest software I have ever seen. And you should see the french version. It hardly works at all!
That's why I love UT (or Quake), they're very customizable, you can write your own launcher, and not spyware-ish. I'm not sure the All Seeing Eyes even works with the latest Steam version.
And what is even worse is that people find it normal and continue using it or even praising it. We should revolt and force them to take it down! For HL2 they'll use Steam to sell you mods, and I'm sure people will continue using it. They're next step will probably to make you pay to play online, and the HL players will be to sheepish to react :rolleyes:

God bless UT :D


Edit: Btw, I was (and still is in a way) a huge Half-Life fan. I've played tons of mods online and offline and often from their first crappy beta versions (CS, DoD, Firearm, ...). But the way VALVe (ab)uses its dominant position really pisses me off :tdown:
 
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NotBillMurray

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Mar 11, 2001
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Keg, to be fair, the way that NS works with Steam is pretty poor considering its a Steam-only release for the new version. For one, they're listed as a third party application, so any possible benefit of Steam is completely lost. Second, you have to do this really awkward 'run Half-life' first approach which isn't intuitive at all (kinda like 'Run UT before INF', which is pretty dumb for a mod).
 

Keganator

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Freon said:
A game should be played easily, without having to install GBs of software and reading tons of manuals, FAQs and forum posts.
When you download a 100k file and think it's the whole game, that's your fault. I went with the smart route, and downloaded the full install, like the NS install guide suggests. I read the one paragraph that they have at the top of the intro page on the Natural Selection website, and on the "download the beta" webpage. By doing that, (ie, following the simple procedure of downloading the full install, like I was told to do) I havn't had a single problem with steam save for the occasional slow startup. There's nothing badly written about "Download the full install of steam, then the full install of NS." You just download the full install of steam, install it, then download the full install of NS and install that. I don't understand why this was such a hard concept, nor why it can't be followed, let alone why you should blame steam on you not following the instructions provided to you. ;)

Freon said:
But the way VALVe (ab)uses its dominant position really pisses me off :tdown:
Yeah, I'd say they're in a dominant position. Half life is THEIR game, their engine, their code. They paid good money liscencing quake 2 and developing their components on top of it, so it's theirs for the keeping and using, however they see fit. If they want you to mod it, they let you mod it. If they don't want you to mod it, you won't be allowed to mod it. That's their choice. Steam is also their code, their baby. The mod makers don't have to use steam. They've chosen to use it. That's their choice. You chose to develop UT maps. That's your choice. It's the same thing. If they want to sell mods, that's their choice too. They're already doing it now, look for "From the makers of Counter Strike: Day of Defeat! in stores now!". Epic has a similar arrangement with UT; they reserve the right to prohibit any modification of their game from being distributed, and they retain control over all content produced on their engines. They havn't had to exercise that yet with anyone, thank goodness. In any case, the potential is there. It's no different from any other game studio. If Sentrystudios was able to have Epic host, distribute, and let people know about Infiltration through their servers and their downloads, do you think they'd say "no, we don't want to reach the entire fanbase of UT players."? Then say Epic approaches them and says, "well, we'd like to charge $5 per download. We'll give you half." Are they going to say no? That, I don't know. What about $3? $1? How much would you pay to download a game at your bandwith's max rating every time, with no waiting? What about a 150 meg mutator pack of every currently available mutator on the web, including new gametypes, guns, and so on? I might pay $1 for that. Maybe even $5.

NotBillMurray said:
Second, you have to do this really awkward 'run Half-life' first approach which isn't intuitive at all (kinda like 'Run UT before INF', which is pretty dumb for a mod).
That's a steam related compatability check. They want you to run Half life first so that all of the half life files are confirmed to be correctly installed. That way, Natural Selection will run. You only have to do that the first time, anyway, to confirm your files are updated. ;) I've been playing the beta quite a bit, and havn't entered HL since I started.

Now, I'm not saying there's problems with steam, but in this case, if you followed those instructions that they give on the top of their page, that one line, then there wouldn't be any problem. As far as NS not being on steam as a "first party" app, that's because they're still in beta. AFAIK, when they finish with the betas, they'll be completely steam complient, and you'll be able to download it strait from them, and not one of the assorted odd download sites.
 

spm1138

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Here's the thing Keg : Natural Selection was already running fine the old way, with all the relevant files in a folder in the half-life folder.

They've replaced that nice and simple mechanism for running multiple mods with some horrendous bandwidth sapping monster that lots of people don't seem able to get running properly.

What's the point?
 

Freon

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Keganator said:
How much would you pay to download a game at your bandwith's max rating every time, with no waiting?
I wouldn't pay a cent. Why should I pay for something I can have for free?
The same applies for mods. I should I buy Counter Strike (DoD/NS/TFC) while I played it for free for years (and I was even better I might add). If that's not fucking the public in the ass, then tell me what it is!
 
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Feb 26, 2001
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I had a previous install of HL, I removed my old install of NS, I downloaded both the required NS update files (3 and 3.3 or whatever it was). I then had to run steam to update my HL (in other words, copy a load of my HL data to a different HDD because it wont let me run HL normally), then I had to install NS, then the patch, then I connect to steam and it doesnt even list the damn mod.
STEAM is a load of ****. I dont want to use their bull**** browser which hardly even works, I want to use ASE. I dont want to have to let steam run for 5 mins every time I want to play the game before I can join a server. I want to be able to run the mod straight off, and connect to a game and play.
****ing STEAM!!!
 
Feb 26, 2001
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Ok, so I didnt download the 200 meg steam install so I could play HL which I already have installed. 200 megs? I couldnt even find the 200 meg version, the only one listed on the page it directs me to is 500kb.
Where do I download the 200 meg install of steam from here - http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=getsteamnow
I can't see it.

Go to the NS page, and see the 'beta quick start' instructions:

Beta Quick Start
1. Download and install Steam ("Half-life Steam Installer" recommended, 211 megabytes). (can't even find that version)

2. Run Half-life through Steam at least once, by loading up the training course. This is necessary to make sure NS will have the files it needs. (what a waste of time that is, why doesnt it just scan it automaticly?

3. Download and install 3.0 beta 1 from a mirror below (150 megabytes).

4. Download and install the 3.0 beta 3 patch from a mirror below (25 megabytes).

5. Learn how to play. Join "Combat" games to start (maps start with "co_"). Join "NS" games when you're more experienced (maps start wtih "ns_"). (Really nice way of browsing mods)

6. Stay informed of news and community updates. We will never spam you and your personal information will always remain private.
 

jaunty

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No. They're telling the truth. If CS or DoD are your favourite games, you'll be playing them within 180 minutes or so. If they aren't your favourite games, you'll play another game, which might be your favourite, while you wait for the download, thus playing your favourite game within minutes.
 

Hadmar

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Jan 29, 2001
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:lol:

I try to avoid steam as long as I can. I don't like the concept. BTW is there an advantage for mod teams in using steam and if not, why do some use it at all?
 
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spm1138

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Steam offers chat chanels and buddy lists.

I suppose it also means that everybody always has an up-to-date game.

If they can get the bastard thing working.
 

Keganator

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http://www.fileplanet.com/files/130000/130416.shtml

Try downloading and using that one. That install worked for me, and it only had a minor half life update to do afterwards. I see what you mean about the installers. They may have taken down their full installers since they had to update the caches. I wonder if they'll put up new ones...

Freon said:
I wouldn't pay a cent. Why should I pay for something I can have for free?
The same applies for mods. I should I buy Counter Strike (DoD/NS/TFC) while I played it for free for years (and I was even better I might add). If that's not ****ing the public in the ass, then tell me what it is!
Oh, but you don't play it free. You downloaded it from *some* server, where they subjected you to some sort of ads, popups, or download system. Those all bring in revenue to their company.
 

NotBillMurray

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Mar 11, 2001
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As far as NS not being on steam as a "first party" app, that's because they're still in beta.
Keg, you don't seem to be seeing the point.

This is an open Beta, right? So, there will be patches for the community to check. Why would they not take advantage of the file distribution system of Steam to send those patches? I mean, that was one of the main selling points of the system. Are you saying that they intentionally disabled the option to do that?

It's just a bit frustrating when I open Steam, then click Games, then click my non-recognized game, then browse for games, then open it. As my 'Time to Game' has increased dramatically, I have to wonder why they did it?
 

Keganator

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Really? Two more clicks? Woe is you! ;) Instead of clicking the start menu, you click the steam icon. Not a big difference, imho.

I don't know why they went with having the open beta not be on steam directly. It's probably at the request of valve that they finish before they put it up there, one of those "when it's done" kind of things. I personally prefer the new browser/os/menu that steam has ingame; it runs much better, doesn't crash the thing when you alt-tab, and the autocomplete console is very nice indeed. Then there's the added security that comes with steam. That's good too.