PDA

View Full Version : Chaingun - question


ROFL 451
19th Jan 2004, 12:43 PM
I am modelling a chaingun at the moment. But, I'm not good at modelling hands and the model I am using (GI Joe Chaingun, comes with the big helicopter) has a grip on the top, like in this screenshot (not modelling this one, best pic I could find)

http://www.fragtopia.com/newsite/SS%20demo%20shot0006.JPG

So, what should I do? Just make it so its resting in the "down" position, leaning on the barrels (would mean I don't have to model hands) or the "up" position (have to model a hand holding it. Thanks for the help

ROFL 451
19th Jan 2004, 01:41 PM
AUGH! I just created the Ammo container, cut out sections using a Boolean, and positioned it almost perfectly. Exept for one part. I can't move it up or down! I can move it left and right with the "moving" tool, but I can't move it up into the desired position! Heeeelllppppp!

Edit: Whew! After rebooting 3ds Studio Max 6, it all worked fine. :flak:

EvilDrWong
19th Jan 2004, 01:58 PM
make it without hands first. if it looks too screwed up then you can try adding them later.

Smoke39
19th Jan 2004, 02:31 PM
Can't you take the hand from UT1?

Postal
19th Jan 2004, 04:30 PM
Try with out the hand, Personaly I like the look of the old 1890's gattlings. A chaingun is a gun whos action is driven with a chain. Thanks to good old Wolf3d did the term Chaingun get mistaken for Gattling Gun or Vulcan Cannon.

ROFL 451
19th Jan 2004, 04:55 PM
Can't you take the hand from UT1?


I don't have UT1 :p Thanks for the help people!

Postal
19th Jan 2004, 05:45 PM
Id say have it up with no hand.

ROFL 451
20th Jan 2004, 01:36 PM
Id say have it up with no hand.

Here is my progress so far (I have spent a few days on this baby):

EvilDrWong
20th Jan 2004, 01:58 PM
nice :D though for a first person view you should probably remove the 'insides' of the tubes making the barrels

Postal
20th Jan 2004, 01:59 PM
Spiffy

ROFL 451
20th Jan 2004, 02:04 PM
Update on chaingun:

Replaces = Minigun (minigun has a stupid model)
Starting Ammo: 75
Total Ammo Capacity: 375
Ammo in Ammo pickup: 75
Primary Fire: Spits alot of lead in a little time, sacrifices accuracy for damage and quantity of shells per second
Secondary Fire: Slower ROF, but is more accurate over distances. Sacrifices quantity of shells per second and damage for accuracy.

ROF=
Primary: 2/3 times faster than minigun primary. [Minigun Primary + (2/3)]
Secondary: Minigun secondary speed.

Damage per shell: 1/2 more damage than minigun's shell [Minigun shell damage + (1/2)]

nice :D though for a first person view you should probably remove the 'insides' of the tubes making the barrels

$h**. How do I fix this. Is it a big problem?

P.S.
How do I check how many poly's my gun has?

EvilDrWong
20th Jan 2004, 02:55 PM
Polygon counter is located in the tools tab. Couldnt tell you the hotkey for it, since ive got mine all jacked up, but there is a hotkey.
its not a big problem at all actually :p Just a piece of advice. No need to have the polies there if they arent ever going to be seen :) Plus once you drop all of them that gives you a bit more to play with for detail and whatnot.

ROFL 451
20th Jan 2004, 03:05 PM
Polygon counter is located in the tools tab. Couldnt tell you the hotkey for it, since ive got mine all jacked up, but there is a hotkey.
its not a big problem at all actually :p Just a piece of advice. No need to have the polies there if they arent ever going to be seen :) Plus once you drop all of them that gives you a bit more to play with for detail and whatnot.

So how do I fix it? Create a cylinder slightly larger than the opening, and fit it inside? P.S. I found the hotkey. it's 7. BUT! It tells me face numbers. Eg how many faces this sphere has. But it won't tell me TOTAL what my polygon count is. . :mad:

EvilDrWong
20th Jan 2004, 03:23 PM
um.. no, you delete the faces that wont ever be seen...
use the tools tab and click the Polygon Counter button, itll tell you for the currently selected object and for the entire scene.

ROFL 451
20th Jan 2004, 07:05 PM
um.. no, you delete the faces that wont ever be seen...
use the tools tab and click the Polygon Counter button, itll tell you for the currently selected object and for the entire scene.

Ok. What's the average poly count for a UT2003 weapon? Oh yes, and with your help I created the bullets for my chaingun. :) Progress is going well, the bullets are positioned in mid-air so far, just have to link them together! :)

Updated screenshot! Heh heh! ph34r t3h ch41]\[gU]\[!

EvilDrWong
20th Jan 2004, 09:19 PM
id say around 1000-1200 should be safe.. any higher and youre pushing it.

Smoke39
20th Jan 2004, 11:51 PM
Bullets = yum!

ROFL 451
21st Jan 2004, 02:17 PM
Bullets = yum!

A bit too metallic for my tastes

Wong; how do I delete certain faces (inside the barrels) without deleting the whole model? Thanks.

Postal
21st Jan 2004, 04:16 PM
Do you not like the sweet taste of lead?

ROFL 451
22nd Jan 2004, 09:11 AM
Do you not like the sweet taste of lead?
Lol!

Ok, new update:
Linked the bullets together. Ok, dillemma once again. Refer to screen one. This will be your FOV. Screen two contains (in red) things I will add. Handle and grip above barrels. I figured out, I MOST LIKELY have this. Refer to screen three and four for explanation. Chaingun must weigh at least 60 lbs.

Screen Three:
Soldier is well pleased with his chaingun, and is owning in battle. Weight is evenly distributed.

Screen Four:
Soldier is well pleased with his chaingun, and is. . .stuggling to support its weight? To compensate for weight, soldier MUST put his hand and arm UNDERNEATH the chaingun. After prolonged firing, chaingun becomes HOT! and you are unable to leave your arm supporting it.

So, to evenly distribute weight, you must have a holding handle near barrels. If I just have a chaingun hovering in midair, it wont be as cool as a well-supported chaingun. Do you think I should try to model hands or should I just make it float.

Postal
22nd Jan 2004, 02:09 PM
I'm serious, why do you think kids eat lead paint, lead tastes sweet.

Well, finish the other details first, then take care of hands, so if it doesnt come out good, you still have a good minigun.

ROFL 451
23rd Jan 2004, 11:36 AM
I'm serious, why do you think kids eat lead paint, lead tastes sweet.

Well, finish the other details first, then take care of hands, so if it doesnt come out good, you still have a good minigun.

ok, thanks Postal. Is it alright if I enter this in your weapon contest? If this needs to be more hush hush you could delete this topic. . .

Postal
23rd Jan 2004, 12:28 PM
The weapons dont have to be hush hush. . . I would love to see this in the contest, but you better get some good code behind it.

ROFL 451
25th Jan 2004, 02:57 PM
The weapons dont have to be hush hush. . . I would love to see this in the contest, but you better get some good code behind it.


Yeah. . . .Fortunately Wong volunteered to do that part for me! j/k! :lol: I will begin researching the coding part.

Postal
25th Jan 2004, 03:37 PM
Knowing Doc, ask him for help and he will damn near make it for you.

ROFL 451
26th Jan 2004, 12:52 PM
Knowing Doc, ask him for help and he will damn near make it for you.

Yeah. . .I was kinda hoping he would help me with it. . .

ROFL 451
27th Jan 2004, 10:32 AM
Yeah. . .I was kinda hoping he would help me with it. . .

Update on the chaingun: CRAP

I was talking to Wong yesterday. Well, I found the "polygon counter" tool, and LO AND BEHOLD! 18,000 poly's. :eek: So, I slapped an "optimize" modifier on the whole model, and w00t! 15,000 poly's! Through searching, I ound that EACH BULLET was 764 poly's. The barrels were 2,000 each, and so forth. So, bullets deleted, barrels replaced, cylinders shortened, cylinders have had sides removed. . . So now, without the bullets, my poly count is 2,000. As I re-model the ammo container (600 poly's) to have fewer poly's progress should improve.

Update 1-27-03 3:27 PM

I replaced the ammo container with one far smaller (will make it even smaller later, it is currently 320 poly's) and searched the whole model for large stuff. I found that my new barrels (all five together) were 980 poly's. . . half of my model's poly's. . . .Soo, I found each one had 5 height segments. I made it one height segment each, and voila! My entire model (no bullets yet though) it 1127 poly's!! YES!

Postal
28th Jan 2004, 03:42 PM
Big difference isnt it.

EvilDrWong
28th Jan 2004, 04:26 PM
damn, quite the reduction there ;)

ROFL 451
28th Jan 2004, 04:53 PM
damn, quite the reduction there ;)

Now, keep in mind I will still need about 15 bullets. . . Is 1600 too high for total poly count?

SamMaster
28th Jan 2004, 06:06 PM
I honestly would say its high but playable

Postal
28th Jan 2004, 06:13 PM
Remember with a very good skin, you can make up alot. The Deus Ex first person Meshes were just 2 or 3 sides with just the parts a player would see.

What if you just used cylinders for the rounds, then put a good skin on them.

EvilDrWong
28th Jan 2004, 11:55 PM
Postals hit it right on the nose. Remove all of the faces that the player will never get a chance to see

Postal
29th Jan 2004, 04:58 AM
See, I got experience, that will never beat motivation, heh, thats why I know leads sweet.

ROFL 451
29th Jan 2004, 08:52 AM
See, I got experience, that will never beat motivation, heh, thats why I know leads sweet.

Remember with a very good skin, you can make up alot. The Deus Ex first person Meshes were just 2 or 3 sides with just the parts a player would see.

What if you just used cylinders for the rounds, then put a good skin on them.

Possibly, but to keep poly count down I wanted to make a SMALL number of LARGE bullets. Refer to the other screenshots. Now, I COULD just make a Curved boxlike thing and the firing animation would cycle bullets thru it or something. . .Like, a Curved clip, leading from the ammo container to the gun . . . .Hmmmm. Or I could leave it unanimated and make it opaque, so that you just imagine the bullets going through, might save poly count. . .

Oh yeah, and the "first and third person" meshes, are they different? Will I have to make a whole new model just to make a 3rd person view one?

Fallen Angel
29th Jan 2004, 11:14 AM
If your making a fire animation - look at the U1 minigun animation, just one bullet went in , then came right back out, to go in... only noticed it with Bullet Time

ROFL 451
29th Jan 2004, 01:17 PM
If your making a fire animation - look at the U1 minigun animation, just one bullet went in , then came right back out, to go in... only noticed it with Bullet Time

Could you give me a link to it or something? Cause I don't have the U1 chaingun . . . or anything U1 for that matter. . .

ROFL 451
5th Feb 2004, 12:43 PM
Is there a difference between 3rd Person model and 1st person? Because I was planning on deleting the areas a player would never view, but would I then have to create a completely new model for the 3rd person? I have my weapon mostly finished, and it's count is still around 1,100 polys, so I still have some for touchup. . .But what should I do now? Do I delete faces that a player wont see, or should I just stick with what I have now, because it is well within my goal of poly's. . .

Postal
5th Feb 2004, 02:40 PM
Yup, youre third could simply be a static mesh with the overall look of the gun, but the first must be the weapon you see, that can have the other faces deleted.

ROFL 451
6th Feb 2004, 11:59 AM
Yup, youre third could simply be a static mesh with the overall look of the gun, but the first must be the weapon you see, that can have the other faces deleted.

So I need two complete meshes? One with deleted faces and one without?

EvilDrWong
6th Feb 2004, 02:53 PM
Yeah, that should do relatively fine. You might want to go into the 3rd person version and cut down some detail that wouldnt be noticed though (like small tubes and stuff that youd have to be a couple inches away from the model to actually notice) just to give the renderer a bit of a break. Then again, its been a while since 2k3 was released and computers have gotten a bit beefier...

Postal
7th Feb 2004, 07:37 AM
2 Meshes, pickup/third person, and first.

Third person and pickup can be a low pol mesh, cutting most of the major details out.

First if the nice one with the missing faces and nice looks, and animations.