Ut2004 Ctf Doa?

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hal

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Well... the UT2003 CTF scene is now a game played by only a marginal amount of people. Is UT2004 CTF going to fall into the gaming abyss on release? I mean, if people weren't interested in it the way it was, are the few small tweaks and handful of new CTF maps really going to revive the gameplay?

Sure ONS (AS is a long-shot for popular online play) should garner some attention and maybe a few players might accidentally press the CTF tab instead of ONS, but is it going to be enough?

Pontificate.

Note: this is not a thread for the obvious UT2003/Epic bashing. I'm just curious to know if you guys think CTF (a gametype this forum seems to thrive on) is DOA.
 

Wowbagger

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I think UT2004 needs to be a huge hit for it to "give us" more CTF players.
What does look promising is that both ONS and AS seems like they will attract lots of new players.
If it was the "pro" feel that scared the newcomers away, ONS and AS might be the gametypes that can bring back those that "play for fun".

So to answer your question, i HOPE not.
 

Zur

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Jul 8, 2002
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FFA Deathmatch is the place where newcomers will come by the droves. That is where you get your basic skills. Unfortunately, UT2003 players are very capable and possibly "scare" newcomers away :p . If CTF isn't picking up, I think iCTF still has it's chances, though.
 

Swedix

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Apr 19, 2000
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I have tried to figure out what it is that makes UT2003 CTF so much different from UT CTF.

For me, the game just doesn't feel right.

I think the differences in skill have to big gaps between the levels. You have to ptactice very very hard to go from one level to the next.
Forget about reallife and play UT2003 6 to 8 hours a day. ;)

All new movements with boostjumps and walljumps also makes a big difference in gameplay.

The weapons are a nother thing that makes it different. It says the wepaons are well balanced but still it has become more of a 'one-weapon game'. Players with great skills with the Ltg combined with binds and the fast weapon-switching, have a big advantage.

To much whining and bitching on the servers.
Use the rocketluncher to kill someone and you're a spammer.
Use Flak cannon to kill someone and you're a spammer.
Use minigun to kill someone and you're a spammer.
... and so on.
(There was whining and bitching on the UT servers as well, but it doesn't come close to how it is on the UT2k3 servers)

UT-CTF was a teamgame. You rarely succeded without a teamplay. In UT2k3-CTF it's very common with solo-runs.
UT2k3 was said to focus on teamaplay but imo, they failure.

In UT-CTF, there was always battles and all over the maps. In UT2k3-CTF most happens in the bases.

If UT2004-CTF is to succeed, they have a change the gameplay back to were it focus more on teamplay.
Better maps shipped with the game.
Make it easier for 'newbies' to become better players and have fun on the pub's. After all, it's on the pub's we recruit new players to the community.

Give us back the battles. Even on midfield.
 

Wowbagger

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Soloruns, i think this is mostly the Adrenalines fault.
You can have a great, tight, game and all of the sudden someone gets speed and cap.
After that it all changes.
The leading team starts to camp and one man tries to speed cap again while the other team pushes forward.

Adrenaline sucks (Relics was never popular so i dont get it why they force that crap upon us)

I also think that the Sports theme and hype that they did before the game was relelased attracted lots of, well, "1337" players with attitudes that werent exactly humble.

I have defended UT2003 from the start and its still the only game i play almost every day but i start to agree with those that complains about the doublejump.
The walljump could stay tho.
Im dont know how i feel about the jumps tbh.
I take it back :)
I agree with Swedix tho that it doesnt feel right in that area.
 

Daedalus

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Yeah, adrenaline is possibly the worst thing to happen to gameplay. Thankfully, the only time I play 2k3CTF is on FragBU nights where adrenaline is turned off. Other than that, I stick to offline CTF being that a lot of the people in pubs nowadays are vicious little bastards
 

Ominous

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2k3 does require practice to get good. More than most games due to all the movement options, weapon switching requirements, and doubling up of armor as life. Adrenaline blows but NA removed it from competition which has helped. Its pretty rare to see solo runs without it. In fact, teams have been going very heavy def with all mini or flak which requires teamwork to get by.

I don't think CTF will start off strong tho due to the skill levels. A lot of 2k3 clans will come back for CTF, but I think that Onslaught will bring in the new blood. It will take them awhile tho to get adjusted and possibly move to CTF. Course, that also depends on how viable onslaught is as a competitive game type. If its better as a pub game type, then eventually as players get better they'll move to where the competition is. However, if onslaught and assault prove to be successful competitively, then I wonder if CTF will survive :(

I do agree that the maps definitely need to be better. And the game has to be more noob friendly in order to attract new players. I think fixing the armor stacking will help in some respects, and even some of the adjustments in weapon switching will help. I think I read that certain weapons have to recharge before you can switch away, like the ltg? If so that will help the noobs out some.
 

Sekhmet

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Oct 16, 2001
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Some good points Swedix, but I disagree with the solo runs part. On pubs perhaps, against a scattered team and with a quick run, but even then you need luck. Against a good clan with good defenders, forget it :).
And there's fighting on midfield, but when there's no flag(s) or powerups there at that moment, there's not much to fight for there unless you are playing as a midfielder.
 

I_B_Bangin

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Aug 6, 2000
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I don't feel like there is anything wrong with CTF as it is, aside from the obvious adreneline issue, which can be addressed without much trouble by good server admins.

I loved CTF in UT, I still love it in UT2003 and I fully expect to love it in UT2004. I wish more people felt this way. I never enjoyed playing DM (although I would probably be a much better fragger if I did). I will probably try out ONS and AS when 2k4 releases, but CTF will always be where my heart is. :D
 

Devastator

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From what I've read so far, UT2k4 will not be that much different from UT2k3. I've never played much Norm Weap to know of the learning curve of UT2k3 but I do know that they a lot of time to master.

Being an Instagib player the only one I had to learn to use was half the shock riffle. That might sound easy at first but the skill gap between clanners and me was incredibly big. I don't think UT2k4 will be much more n00b friendly than 2k3 was. Someone that only plays once every two weeks cannot expect to be "Godlike" every time he goes online.

I know that the LGI 135/35 CTF game will still require lots of time to be competitive and those who are there will surely stay in 2k4.
 
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hal said:
Well... the UT2003 CTF scene is now a game played by only a marginal amount of people. Is UT2004 CTF going to fall into the gaming abyss on release? I mean, if people weren't interested in it the way it was, are the few small tweaks and handful of new CTF maps really going to revive the gameplay?
I'm just curious to know if you guys think CTF (a gametype this forum seems to thrive on) is DOA.

In short, yep, 2kX CTF is DoA.

Why?

-Weapons are the same (sure, they'll be tweaked a little, but essentially the same)
-Same uberdodging

The people that are going to play 2k4 CTF are the people that are playing it now. ie: nobody.

Look at these stats: http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

I can't explain those CS numbers.

But the other games are built around objectives, where one single leet player has no effect, but it's the group momentum that counts.

That's something that 2k3/4 (didn't/won't) have.

Go spectate on ReconGamer sometime, watch the lead scorer. He's doing it all by himself. People get tired of that.
 
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TomWithTheWeather

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UT2k4 CTF is basically the same as UT2k3 CTF. There are the obvious weapon tweaks and such, but otherwise it's the same.

The weapons do seem more balanced for me. In UT2k4, I've gotten to the point where I can be deadly with just about any weapon I happen to choose.

The few times I've been in CTF playtests, I've had a blast. :)

Map-wise, I only really like about 33% of CTF maps that are shipping with UT2k4, though I've had fun playing on all of them, IMHO.

Another thing, Epic has seen the increased popularity in objective based, team-oriented, vehicular gametypes and saw the need to satisfy that chunk of gamers. Most of the work done on UT2k4 has been with AS and ONS. I do wish that we were paying more attention to CTF, IMHO. :hmm:
 
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janiwashere

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When you look at the concept of CTF it's rather boring actually. You just steal the enemy flag and bring it home, now where's the fun in that?

^^ Now that's exactly how a newbie sees the game. There are a lot more interesting games out there, just look at that GSpy stats page and you'll see that most of those top10 games all have complicated objectives, cool vehicles, different player classes etc. Now those things appeal to n00bs these days. When ut99 was released there were only two choices, either DM or CTF. The only games ppl actually played online were Quakes 1-3, UT and Half-Life (CS). CTF was something new and exiting after years of DM.

I bet that once ut2k4 is released Onslaught will lift the game to top 5 of the most played games online. CTF will remain the game that only BuF'ers and oldskool ppl play :)
 
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JohnDoe641

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TomWithTheWeather said:
The weapons do seem more balanced for me. In UT2k4, I've gotten to the point where I can be deadly with just about any weapon I happen to choose.
But see there's a problem there.

You mention that you've become more deadly with the weapons, just imagine how the players who already dominate the game are going to be. Hell, the reason many leave the game is because too many good players completely stomp on the newer players. If they get any better, you're just going to have the same result and the game will die very shortly after it's release. :(
 

Thrawn70

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I was drawn to 2k3 CTF because I figured it would be a team-oriented gamemode, one that playing over voicecomm would be fun to organize, and it was, but the skill difference on the pub servers made things quite frustrating for people of all skill levels (one of the reasons why I decided to help with Capture). Now people have given up trying to do teamplay at all and have made it into glorified deathmatch, so I doubt I will be sticking around for 2k4's CTF scene. The idea of jumping into a tank and running some poor sucker over has always been high on my list of fun gaming moments, but I have stuck with the UT2003 scene because of the awesome community. Now that we have XMP in our hands and ONS on the near horizon, I think most of my non-BuF CTF days are coming to an end.
 

MrMaddog

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Agree, CTF on UT2K3 just isn't worth it. I've been spoiled from playing Unreal Fortress that I kinda expected more than I really should. :) Anyway, the big problem with CTF servers is that people play it like DM period. In fact the only gametype I play online in UT is Domination because I figured that it combines teamplay with payers who just wanna Deathmatch anyway. :lol:

I used to be pretty good at defending when UT2K3 first came out, but I had to give up my online connection for a few months and now I can't even play it the same anymore due to the high double jumpers. :( Plus it's silly to devote "all" your time to a single game. Aside from the ol' "some of us have jobs & a life" routine, there's other games out there that we play like XMP.

IMHO, class based games pretty much force people to work as a team since you can't do it all. (Which explains why I really like UNF and XMP so much) Shame that UT2K3 doesn't have the species stats on as a default like UC does. Oh well...here's hoping Onslaught would be as good as XMP if not better.
 

Zur

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Ominous said:
2k3 does require practice to get good. More than most games due to all the movement options, weapon switching requirements, and doubling up of armor as life. Adrenaline blows but NA removed it from competition which has helped. Its pretty rare to see solo runs without it. In fact, teams have been going very heavy def with all mini or flak which requires teamwork to get by.

It would be a good idea to add this as an option to UT2004's "competitive" mode...