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View Full Version : Starlight Scope: 3 questions.


geogob
14th Dec 2003, 09:45 AM
When is it used? Is it always use during night operations or is it only in special case (or only when someone feels like it)?

I think the Canadian force used to use Starlight scopes, but they switched for ACOGs. Am I right? are they still used today with the C7?

Finaly, with all this chat about mutating the game etc. could it be possible, without too much complications, to implement it as new attachment in addition to the ACOG?

Ra286, did something similar, only it wasn't in a scope. If it was restricted to a scope, it might be an interesting addition to the game for night operations and wouldn't affect the game balance too much. What do you guys think about this? I know it has been discussed before and the general answer was "it would be hard to do". Ra286 proved that wrong. Now, with 2.9, everything seems even easier mutator-wise. What the hell! I might even try to learn unreal script and start to mod myself :)

kungpaosamuraiii
14th Dec 2003, 12:35 PM
What I think RA286 did was put a mesh on the player view, make the player see everything in a green hue, and emit a clientside only flashlight so only the player can see the light.


What most people do is make their nightvision mutator/feature eliminate all light sources from the map while putting a grean hue across the screen which would probably be more correct for a starlight scope. By not seeing any light source it'd be like viewing an unbuilt map in UED with no lights.

geogob
14th Dec 2003, 03:53 PM
Is is possible, with the UT engine, to change parameters to the image or a part of the image, of Hue, Saturation, Brightness and Contrast?

Alborda
14th Dec 2003, 06:04 PM
take a look here:

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/23-11/toc.htm

Grunt11Bravo
14th Dec 2003, 07:08 PM
take a look here:

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/23-11/toc.htm

Wow, that's an old manual!

The scope pictured appears to be an AN/PVS-2, possibly 1st generation scope. Viet-Nam era.

The original post asked if Starlight scopes are still being used, the answer is: yes, however, they are no longer referred to as "Starlight" scopes. They're now called either night vision sight (NVS) or night vision device (NVD).

The AN/PVS-4, a 2nd generation scope, (which was first produced in 1976 and I believe is still in use by components of the US military) is probably the one most commonly still in use.

For more information regarding how it all works and for a break down on the classifications or generations of scopes (and also because I don't feel like typing it all out), go here (http://www.mans-toys.com/home/nightvision)

SaraP
14th Dec 2003, 08:04 PM
I was under the impression that most modern night-vision goggles are infrared devices which pick up temperature variations in the area being looked at and convert them into visible light, wheras old-fashioned starlight scopes were light-amplification devices which simply amplified ambient starlight and/or moonlight.

DEFkon
14th Dec 2003, 10:24 PM
I think your refering to thermal. AFAIK it's more common on vehicles rather than issued to infantry or special forces. I still think that soldiers use plain old light amplification, rather than anything "fancy".

ecale3
15th Dec 2003, 12:46 AM
I thought the AN/PVS-10 was the night vision sight used by the US military. at least, thats the only night scope i have seen mounted on our weapons.

SaraP
15th Dec 2003, 02:55 AM
I think your refering to thermal. AFAIK it's more common on vehicles rather than issued to infantry or special forces. I still think that soldiers use plain old light amplification, rather than anything "fancy".

So-called thermal sights are simply a more advanced form of infrared -- you use a very sensitive IR sensor and configure it to look for variations in thermal intensity rather than for actual IR emissions.

ecale3
15th Dec 2003, 03:38 AM
Also troops supposedly have a brand new thermal sight. It was tested by a unit in Iraq i believe. They were using it to detect people through building walls. Saw something about it on the discovery channel friday. Man portable, weapon mountable, thermal sight. Can't remember the designation they were calling it by though.

OICW
15th Dec 2003, 04:33 AM
There's an upgraded PVS4, which has a third generation tub andis still in service from memory, but it's being phased out IIRC.

The 82nd Airborne AFAIK used a new handheld thermal imager but it couldn't be mounted on a weapon. The only other thermal weapon sight used in Iraq that I know of was the PAS-13 TWS, which comes in medium and heavy sizes for different weapons. It's not new, I think I remember first seeing it in a 1991 M2HB manual ;)

Tiffy
15th Dec 2003, 07:02 AM
all the TI units I've seen can 'look' through building and earthworks to a limited extent.

BTW Termal Imaging sights are similar to Infra-Red sights but generate an image of the terget based on thermal differences. They are sometimes called Imaging Infra-red devices.

I have personally seen TI used to spot mines buried in a roadway froma moving Challenger tank. I have used the TOGS system of a Cheiftain to read the number plate of a fully scrimmed and cammo'd landrover at a range of over a kilometer. You couldn't even guess where the vehicle was using the naked eye. I have also 'seen' infantry through a double brick wall using the same TOGS system, the range was closer.

TI can't see very well through vegitation and whn looking through walls the target must be quite close on the other side. If a wall has a cavity or is insulated then you can forget it and in hot climates (such as Iraq) the temperature of the wall also prevents anything being seen through them.

Don't forget the British invented a nice little grenade to go in a vehicles discharger system that hides the firing vehicle behind a cloud of 'hot' smoke. A vehicle injection smoke screen, as produced by most SovBlock tanks and the Marines M60's (not sure if their M1's have an injection smoke system) produces hot smoke anyway.

TI and night sights in general have several limitations that are very hard to replicate in a game system. It's not like looking at the world through a green filter or seeing every thing in shades of grey.

Grunt11Bravo
15th Dec 2003, 08:01 AM
SaraP said: I was under the impression that most modern night-vision goggles are infrared devices which pick up temperature variations ...

NVGs (AN/PVS5 & -7) are light amp devices. They do include a tiny IR light for use when attempting to read red-light readable maps or a bit of signaling. I've found that the little light is cumbersome to use and at times, have forgotten to turn the stupid thing off.

ecale3 said: I thought the AN/PVS-10 was the night vision sight used by the US military. at least, thats the only night scope i have seen mounted on our weapons.


The AN/PVS10 is an integrated day/night sniper scope originally made for the M24 sniper rifle. "Normal" infantry squads, companies, battalions, etc, use the AN/PVS4 built with 2nd/3rd/4th generation light amp tubes. It all depends on a particular unit's MTOE & mission requirements. The AN/PVS14 is used on the M4 rifle.

Check out this site: Sniper's Paradise (http://www.snipersparadise.com/equipment/nvg/nvg.htm)

geobob said:

*snip*.. Finaly, with all this chat about mutating the game etc. could it be possible, without too much complications, to implement it as new attachment in addition to the ACOG?

Ra286, did something similar, only it wasn't in a scope. .. *snip*

Not sure about the RA286 mute, but the R2 mute had an IR like thing to it.

Jagdtiger
15th Dec 2003, 08:21 AM
I think the Canadian force used to use Starlight scopes, but they switched for ACOGs. Am I right? are they still used today with the C7?



The CF uses C69 3.5x sight as well as the "kite sight" for image intesification. We do not use the ACOG. The crosshairs on the C69 are similar to german WW2 sniper sights. Looking somewhat like the crappy lines below....

-_ _ -
|

perrin98
15th Dec 2003, 01:30 PM
Close, but its C79, and...I believe 3.4 power. Good shot tho :D

-LordPerrin