EULA clarifications, "game" use, etc. info

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Vito

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Mar 18, 2002
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After a looooooooong chat in #BeyondUnreal with TossMonkey and others, I'm removing all the threads and posts regarding licensing, the EULA, if you can make a game or not, etc., and putting together a FAQ. I'll also update the wiki.

I have to run it by Epic first, so it'll be 24-48 hours before it goes up. Please don't post new threads about it.

Thanks for the questions, everyone!
 
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Vito

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EULA updates in progress

Epic's decided to simply update the EULA. Looks like we're just about done. I'm satisfied with what it says, personally, and I think the "commercial exploitation" licenses (or simply getting written approval from Epic, as the license states) will cover the corner cases.
 
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Vito

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New EULA

New Runtime EULA

This is the current, possibly final draft of the new EULA for the Runtime. Comments welcome, and UDN will be updated with a lot of new information tomorrow/Thursday/Friday, including an updated Runtime with this included.

Please don't post this to BU or PU or anyplace until the updates all go up.
 
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Gawes

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I didn't really get, why Epic is against Games made with the Runtime. Because the EULA forbids commercial use, i think it wouldn't harm, if some Community members produce Games and distribute them as freeware. Actually there are not many People even able to do so, so wheres the Problem?
But however. If thats the descission, we have to live with it.
But the Question still remains, when is it a game and when not?
Is TseTse's Idea of the IRC-Chat with "Games" a game? Its also educational.
Or what about Daid303's Droids?
 
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Daid303

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Gawes said:
But the Question still remains, when is it a game and when not?
Is TseTse's Idea of the IRC-Chat with "Games" a game? Its also educational.
Or what about Daid303's Droids?
Click to expand...
Personaly I think TseTse's idea of IRC-games can be done, you can't really say that any IRC-game (as long as it isn't any "real"-time action game) wouldn't effect epic selling unrealengines.

I don't see a 3D mine sweeper in IRC be a real compitition
against any 3D action game.

But remember that i'm NOT related to Epic, so they'll have to decide.

About my droids.... yes.... it's a question on it's own, is it a game or a dev. tool? (It might be a good idea to get everything into compilible code so I could port it to any engine easly, I only need to find out how to port staticmeshes WITH karma stuff over)
 
Sir_Brizz

Sir_Brizz

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Updated EULA said:
5. Just so we are clear here: development of a game using the Runtime Software is permissible. Releasing that game via any means to anyone is not!
Click to expand...

To me this sounds like, "Yes! Make games, but don't release them. Send them to us if they are good enough so we can pay you money!" ;)
 
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Vito

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This is what you asked for.

Hey, you guys were the ones screaming for a ruling on "games" without specifying what "games" were yourselves. Now there is one, and you're complaining again. I warned you repeatedly this would happen.

If you're concerned your project is game, you should consult a lawyer, or email licensing@epicgames.com with a description of your project.

Or, just don't release it.
 
[SAS]Solid Snake

[SAS]Solid Snake

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Well, at least we have it cleared up. Thanks Vito for the work you have provided and the work you have done. I can understand Epic's ruling on this, and well, at least they are benefitting the research/educational department somewhat.

I am a little disappointed but not surprised.

I may still play around with this RunTime, but I don't really see the point, as all I really want to do is make interactive entertainment.
 
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oxygen

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Whats the definition of release? Does it mean giving some one a copy of my 'game' or making it publicly available. I have a friend who wants to make a map for my game, am I allowed to send him the .u, .utx, etc, files so he can make a map?
 
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Vito

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Please read the EULA. "YOU MAY NOT USE THE RUNTIME SOFTWARE TO DEVELOP GAMES FOR RELEASE VIA ANY MEANS TO ANY FORM OF END-USER." Any means, to any form of end user. That means, any way you can possibly conceive to get around it; and to anyone you can possibly think of. You cannot give anyone anything.
 
TossMonkey

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oxygen, personal use. I mean, obviously it would take a team of people to create a game project, and by release it's a distribution outside of the development team (such as serving the file over ftp, or distributing by some other media probably like CD's on games mags, or whatever).

I do think the runtime is a great idea, especially for amateur developers. Sir_Brizz has said what I wanted to say, but I don't think it's a bad thing as what it seems like to him. You could create a great game with the runtime, send it off to Epic and theres a chance it could get published. Although you most likely couldn't pay the fee's of the engine outright they may be willing to cut a percentage or whatever.
 
Sir_Brizz

Sir_Brizz

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I don't think it's a bad thing. Not at all...I'm sorry if my post made you think I was complaining or anything. I think the Runtime is awesome. Small time developers can try their hand at the Unreal Engine and see what they can pull off.

I'm curious though, does the EULA stuff you mentioned cause any grief if a small studio does that and then shows it off to Epic, or any other publisher/developer type of company to try to get into the industry?
 
[SAS]Solid Snake

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The EULA can be changed by Epic at any time, for any reason and it was written in the first one, which you had to have agreed to in order to download it. Since the EULA has changed, you must accept it.

Read the EULA again.

Honestly AmazingJas your just going to stirup trouble by saying what you said and also confuse a lot more people, especially those who heard about the release of the runtime but not the changed EULA.
 
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AmazingJas

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I'm not trying to stir up trouble, but I do think legally, you can't change a contract after the event, unless both parties agree. Unless there was something in the agreement that said that you have to accept any future changes in retrospect, which may be in there, but I didn't notice. Which would be ridiculous because they could add in later that you have to give em your first born son or something...I am peeved because I spent a fair bit of time learning how to use the Unreal engine because of this opportunity, now I'm left with a sour taste. I've scrapped my project because of the now restrictive implications, and my overall opinion of Epic has suffered to boot. It was a great opportunity that has turned into a non-event.
 
Alhanalem

Alhanalem

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Daid is correct.

No one seems to realize thata epic created this for learning purposes, because a 3D engine like this could have so many applications besides games. Its to learn the inner workings of the engine and create something productive.
 
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