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Ticalion
16th Oct 2003, 05:43 AM
Hi all,

I was wondering if you have a review queue that mappers can check the progress of their maps on?

I'm interested in finding out roughly when or if my map will be getting a review?

Thanks


Tical :D

AMmayhem
16th Oct 2003, 09:11 AM
The list would be long, and would also open the door for more n00b complaints. Though I can see why people would like to have one. But that's just my opinion. :hmm:

MassChAoS
16th Oct 2003, 09:23 AM
As mayhem stated. Nope.

Hourences
16th Oct 2003, 10:08 AM
in general, maybe we already talked about this a long time ago, but shouldnt requests from the author themself get a higher priority ? kinda logic since that would mean the guy really wants a review, while now 60 procent of the review list is filled with random people who select "random" maps, sometimes years old
so currently the people who really want a review for their own work have less chance on getting a review like this

FW|morpheus
16th Oct 2003, 11:00 AM
Right. I requested a review for my map 3 times and the request button always gets yellow again after a while. 6 months and nothing. Not even queqed.
Nevermind me and my stupid maps.

Mister_Prophet
16th Oct 2003, 11:43 AM
what is map name?

AMmayhem
16th Oct 2003, 03:13 PM
in general, maybe we already talked about this a long time ago, but shouldnt requests from the author themself get a higher priority ? kinda logic since that would mean the guy really wants a review, while now 60 procent of the review list is filled with random people who select "random" maps, sometimes years old
so currently the people who really want a review for their own work have less chance on getting a review like this

I usually try to do that, can't get all of them though, or if someone specifically requests me to do a review, I make it prioity.

Ticalion
20th Oct 2003, 06:40 AM
I was informed that you get your map reviewed quicker if you dont specify a reviewer, so is this not the case??

Hourences
20th Oct 2003, 06:45 AM
not at all, specifying an active reviewer could give a far quicker result, in the general que its very likely its going to get lost

MassChAoS
20th Oct 2003, 11:26 AM
However, if you request a inactive reviewer, you're not going to get anything either.

FW|morpheus
26th Oct 2003, 01:30 PM
DM-TheMoment

Mister_Prophet
27th Oct 2003, 02:16 PM
The Moment=Reviewed as of now

Sorry, didn't realize it had been sitting around for so long....for some reason I thought someone reviewed it already.

FW|morpheus
1st Nov 2003, 09:08 AM
Thanks.

Ticalion
10th Nov 2003, 07:55 AM
Well I've been waiting since the start of September for a review and it doesnt look like I 'm gonna get one here,

So is there any hope of getting my map reviewed??

Is there any way I can select it for review again and specify a reviewer??

Would anyone of the reviewers be willing to review it for me??

Thnks sorry for being a pain :2thumb:

ThomRed
10th Nov 2003, 10:54 PM
I've had other people put my maps in the review Queue. The one map is been in their since june, it would be nice if a person could only have one map in the queue at a time to lighten the load on the queue.

MassChAoS
11th Nov 2003, 07:32 AM
We've thought about that or limiting the author to request only his own maps. I think the latter might be the best choice. Suggestions?

AMmayhem
11th Nov 2003, 08:46 AM
We've thought about that or limiting the author to request only his own maps. I think the latter might be the best choice. Suggestions?

I don't know about limiting to maps only the author has made, there are probably some good maps out there that could use to be brought to our attention. But I do agree that it could help if there was some limiting. If there is going to be some limiting, don't take away reviewers ability to request reviews for ourselves.

The other thing that would help is for us reviewers to get more reviews put out, (I know I've been guilty the last couple weeks of being slow, but I got slowed by quite a bit of homework.)

ThomRed
11th Nov 2003, 03:45 PM
It might be good to let the map owner change the person they requested to get a review from, incase the person get a inactive reviewer and switch to a active reviewer. Show active reviewer's (anyone who has done a review in the past 2 weeks or so) names in green and how many many they got to review. Then inactive reviewer's name in red. Don't know if you could do that or if would work, just a thought.

MassChAoS
11th Nov 2003, 10:32 PM
I'm not sure if changing who reviews your map would be a good idea if they already started the review and you don't know. Reviewers will have to give an opinion on that one.

As for colors, not possible... however, I can make only active reviewers show up.

ThomRed
22nd Nov 2003, 08:27 PM
How do you get a map out of limbo, I have on of my maps I added to the Queue back in july. I have a map I just put up the firweek of this month that someone else put in to the queue and it just got reviewed.

MassChAoS
22nd Nov 2003, 09:17 PM
General requests are cleared after 45 days, requests to specific reviewers are not until the reviewer does something with it.

ThomRed
22nd Nov 2003, 09:45 PM
How do you find out who you put the review to or if it was a general request? And what happens if that person stoped reviewing?

MassChAoS
22nd Nov 2003, 10:29 PM
You know, if you mentioned the map name, you might get something out of it.

ThomRed
23rd Nov 2003, 01:11 AM
DM-HauntedHousexa

MassChAoS
23rd Nov 2003, 10:05 AM
You gave the request to Mister_Prophet, and he still is reviewing.

ThomRed
23rd Nov 2003, 10:27 AM
You gave the request to Mister_Prophet, and he still is reviewing.

thanks MassChAoS :tup:

BIG-MICK
24th Nov 2003, 02:50 AM
[/QUOTE]Well I've been waiting since the start of September for a review and it doesnt look like I 'm gonna get one here
So is there any hope of getting my map reviewed??
Is there any way I can select it for review again and specify a reviewer??
Would anyone of the reviewers be willing to review it for me??
[QUOTE]


Like Ticalion I have been in the same position .First requested a review
on the 8th of september and twice since then..no joy the map name is ctf-idol-special-edition :(...ps did not specify a reviewer on any of the attempt's

Mister_Prophet
24th Nov 2003, 01:15 PM
ThomRed: I just made 3 recent reviews in the last week, I promise that your map will be on my next heap.

Big-Mick: I reviewed a map called "Idol Worship" before in the past, and it was your map I believe, how many versions of this map do you have out?

ThomRed
24th Nov 2003, 02:46 PM
ThomRed: I just made 3 recent reviews in the last week, I promise that your map will be on my next heap.

thanks Prophet.

AMmayhem
24th Nov 2003, 03:15 PM
Just to keep this thread from being too off topic, (which it's probably too late), this thread was made for putting out an idea for a review queue, not to complain who hasn't gotten a review. It's understanding that one can get frustrated that a map isn't getting reviewed, but please keep in mind there are hundreds of maps, and only so many of us.

All that is asked is some patience and understanding; we are doing what we can. :)

BIG-MICK
24th Nov 2003, 04:07 PM
ThomRed: I just made 3 recent reviews in the last week, I promise that your map will be on my next heap.

Big-Mick: I reviewed a map called "Idol Worship" before in the past, and it was your map I believe, how many versions of this map do you have out?

That was a long..long time ago MP and it was DM....CTF-Idol-special-edition is a totaly different map Pic below .......but belongs to the idolworship series ..It was my way of keeping track of them on line..."screen is darker than in game"

Ticalion
4th Dec 2003, 05:32 AM
Right, I have now requested a review for 36thChamber by a reviewer.

Does this mean I have to wait another 3 months before its reviewed?

How is this fair, if someone (like me) does not know about the 45 days general review queue refresh how are mappers meant to get reviews??

I think this place is great and there are some people here with emense tallent and vision to keep a site as big as this up and running.

You need to get a better reviewing scheme on the go :)

HF & GL :D

MassChAoS
4th Dec 2003, 08:57 AM
I think it would be more helpful if we actually had reviewers that were consistently reviewing. Many of them are not, and a bunch of them just fade away.

ThomRed
4th Dec 2003, 04:09 PM
Have any maps in the general review queue in the past couple of months got reviewed? you might just get rid of it.

It might not be to fair but to get through more maps. Cutting out maps that get a low user score. Or giving a short basic over view of the map and maybe no score.

One other thing maps that are real good like the featured map to have it reviewed by 2 different reviewers, to have different prospectives.

AMmayhem
4th Dec 2003, 07:11 PM
It wouldn't be the greatest idea to eliminate maps with low user scores, main reason being that a lot of people give a map a 0 for not having a screenshot. Download the map before you comment on it for Pete's sake.

As for 2 different reviewers:
1. That's what the comments are for.
2. Reviews would take even longer to get done and posted, thus creating longer review lists and more waiting.

quillion
7th Jul 2004, 04:39 PM
how about some sort of score system? the more its requested for a review the higher it climbs in priority. 10 requests get done more than 5:P
seeing as more peeps want it reviewed.

other than that it should be the mappers only requesting review,
this would cut out alot of random request hits.

MassChAoS
7th Jul 2004, 05:20 PM
Part 1, reviewers have the choice of which maps they want to review, however, they are sorted such that more requested maps are at the top.

Part 2, I believe major of the requests are the authors of the maps, so its really not worth the trouble of implementing a mapper limitation.

Aggressor
8th Jul 2004, 01:38 PM
?? Isn't it only possible to request a review once? I mean, when review is requested, no additional requests can be made until it is reset.

MassChAoS
8th Jul 2004, 03:32 PM
We changed that based on user feedback. A map can have multiple requests, one per person. The queue is sorted for Reviewers such that higher requested maps are listed at the top. Its still their choice which map they pick though.

Mavoric
17th Jul 2004, 06:56 AM
If random people are asking for reviews. Can't you make it so like the author gets an email saying that someone wants there map reviewed. Then they can decide, instead of you getting people sending out random reviews requests as they might just be trying to waste your time.

This could also stop peoples maps (like mine) who dont want there maps reviewed :)!

MassChAoS
17th Jul 2004, 08:18 AM
If a reviewer's choice to waste his time or not... obviously maps that are crap won't be frequently chosen for reviews (the exception being Mr_Prophet's spurts of zeros).

As far as map that the author doesn't want reviewed... just because no one requests the review doesn't mean the map won't be reviewed. Its best to send me or Hourences an email with the map title of your map that you don't want reviewed so we can ensure that.

Ironblayde
17th Jul 2004, 02:18 PM
Every once in awhile, you see a map and the urge to write a ridiculous zero-point review is just too strong to overcome. But they only take about 15 minutes instead of the long process of assessing a map that's actually playable, so the waste of time isn't too great. :)

Zlal
22nd Jul 2004, 06:14 AM
Tough. You dont want the chance of your map being reviewed, dont submit it to a review site :P

Aggressor
24th Jul 2004, 02:29 AM
Well, I'm not really fond of this "multiple request" thing - one can get his clan mates to request some.. err.. "clan map" (get it?) review and this way bad maps get in front of other, possibly good maps. I think date of submission is still the best vriteria for which map to review first, apart from a couple of known "blockbusters" from time to time. ;)

Bot_40
24th Jul 2004, 12:15 PM
hmm had another idea. How about allowing the author to re-request a review say, every week or so (but other users can only request once). I just imagine there's quite a few random people out there that submit a map, request a review, then disappear into the abyss and didn't really need a review that badly. Dunno, it might annoy if maps are in the review queue forever because the author keeps requesting it.

Zlal
24th Jul 2004, 02:26 PM
Well, I'm not really fond of this "multiple request" thing - one can get his clan mates to request some.. err.. "clan map" (get it?) review and this way bad maps get in front of other, possibly good maps. I think date of submission is still the best vriteria for which map to review first, apart from a couple of known "blockbusters" from time to time. ;)

We can still choose, so no clan maps (unless we want to, that is)

MartinW
12th Mar 2005, 06:34 AM
Why does such a useless map like DM-OMGthisUBERcrapisfilledwithRedeemers get reviewed 1 week after it was uploaded whereas other maps, serious maps, like my DM-BoneMill do not get reviewed even after months have passed since a review was requested?
*me is confused*

ArcadiaVincennes
12th Mar 2005, 07:17 AM
Why does such a useless map like DM-OMGthisUBERcrapisfilledwithRedeemers get reviewed 1 week after it was uploaded whereas other maps, serious maps, like my DM-BoneMill do not get reviewed even after months have passed since a review was requested?
*me is confused*

Each reviewer treats the review queue differently. I tackle my personal reviews first and then go to the general queue.
That map was in my personal queue this week and that upset me. So I reviewed it and followed it up with this thread...

http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=155741

To answer your question more directly, The reason why is a combination of the users who request the maps, and how reviewers handle the review queue.

:[lol]:Squid75
26th Apr 2005, 12:59 PM
Heck my map has been in que for almost a year
DM-LargeLegos
http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=7422

Cursed_Soul
15th Mar 2006, 12:59 AM
Yea, whats kinda weird though, that at the moment a lot of new maps appear on nalicity and are reviewed so fast you can see em both in the latest additions and latest reviews.

grove was released a few days ago and got a review,
while sirea was released around summer vacation and no reviewer even bothered.

Sure, you can review maps the way you like,
but at least pick out the better maps that should be reviewed out of those masses of maps submitted for reviewage.

Its kinda a bumper to put so much work in a map,
only to see no one is willing to review it.
(and never reaches the publicity of a reviewed map)
Sure i enjoyed making the map,
but id also like some reviewer's opinion on it, and some nice flame and fan mail about the map is apreciated lol.

and yea, there are a lot of maps so yes it can take a while,
But whats the point if its not a while, but never?

ArcadiaVincennes
15th Mar 2006, 06:41 AM
I understand your frustration. I myself have never received a map review here. And I checked up on Sirea - no one requested a review of it, it's not in the review queue.
But I know that's not really the point.

The queue is massive. Most of the requests are by authors. We have how many active reviewers? And those few are supposed to (depends on the reviewer) review maps in their personal queue, plus recently submitted maps, plus maps that have been sitting around a long time?

Some people want us to review only good/great maps.
Some people want everything recent reviewed.
Some people want everthing reviewed.

We just can't please all the people all the time.

IMO, what the site needs is more active reviewers. Some who would put effort into their personal queues, some who would jump on all the recent releases, and some who would like to do archaeological work in the old review queue.

But we don't have that. So we do what we do.

Ironblayde
15th Mar 2006, 11:55 AM
grove was released a few days ago and got a review,
while sirea was released around summer vacation and no reviewer even bothered.
Regarding DOM-Grove, it got a review that quickly because the author specifically requested that I review the map, and since nothing else was in my personal review queue at the time, it became my first priority right away.

The review queue now comprises nearly a thousand requests. Given the time it takes to write up a thorough and thoughtful review, and the rate at which new submissions are being added, the vast majority of those maps will never be reviewed. It sucks, but I don't know what we can do about it, especially when many of the staff reviewers haven't written up a review in ages -- that was my status, too, until just a few weeks ago.

The result is that it's difficult to predict what will be reviewed and when. Better-looking maps will often get precedence, as will those requested to a specific reviewer, as will those for a gametype that a reviewer especially enjoys (Bombing Run, in my case). I also give precedence to requests made by a map's author and tend not to worry about those requested by someone else, since I feel that the map's author is a review's primary audience. But of course, each reviewer looks at these things differently. For example, Gnome and Sapper has come up with a number of reviews of very old maps recently, whereas I tend to ignore ancient requests, figuring that someone who requested a review two years ago for a map he created five years ago probably isn't holding his breath anymore.

Like Arcadia said, it would be very helpful if we could find some more capable reviewers. But even we could, that wouldn't eliminate the problem, only diminish it slightly.

Cursed_Soul
15th Mar 2006, 01:05 PM
About sirea, I asked for a review on nalicity two times.
And untill recently i wasnt able to ask for a review, becouse it said there was allready a review requested (by me)

both without asking for a particular reviewer, becouse I expect a fair review from any of them and from the reviews ive read you all have a nice view/other perspectives on maps and if you need something to improve your work it would be perspective. (ok, and love for the work you do)
And the last thing i would do is email a reviewer and ask them to review the map, becouse imho it sounds impatient and respectless towards them.

and actually i have asked on a few occasions why there wherent any reviews,
And basically watched the nalicity day in day out to see if it was reviewed (same for insite) untill school started again, still hoping to see a review but never got one. and still ive been going to nalicity more often since i submitted sirea, becouse i had spend a lot of time on that map, i wanted that review.
As a mapper and someone that loves being creative and wants to be good at it that review can give me a lot of new insight in a map, that and the comments the map gets, and a map gets more comments if it has a review. also was mentioned more than once on planetunreal/buf.
So what wouldve maken my day, was to see a nice score and a good review to really close of that chapter.
And know what mistakes i made, so i wont put them in my new map (its there, but i wait patiently untill I get review)

Especially a good review can help to get a map to spread trough the community, and thats why I release a map.
If im making a map for myself, i'll keep it for myself.

And im not talking about better looking maps, but also the more original ones or ones that have a layout you'd want your girlfriend to have.
And most of the time, if a map gets a lot of high grades from peoples comments it gets reviewed faster (might be luck),
and sirea did get those grades.

http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=8719

But yea, this post might be the frustration ive build up ever since i submitted the map lol.
So hope you'll take it with a bit of sugar, and know i mean well :)

Edit: why not make like a reviewers contest for NC.
People can review any unreviewed map (that isnt dm-gheybox100001337hax) and if good enough could be posted on nalicity in the style of an "guest reviewer" or something. (genome and sapper had a guest ;) )
Maybe a reviewer of the month?

God i dont know :)

Edit 2:
Have had a giant headache all day, so sorry for any english sentences that are written in a "im a toast eating frenchman without any english knowlegde" style.

Edit 3:
This (3th) time i asked iron for the review, But this doesnt mean i wouldnt mind a review from arc, gnome, sapper or any other reviewer/combination of reviewers. :)

ArcadiaVincennes
15th Mar 2006, 02:06 PM
As a mapper and someone that loves being creative and wants to be good at it that review can give me a lot of new insight in a map, that and the comments the map gets, and a map gets more comments if it has a review. also was mentioned more than once on planetunreal/buf.
So what wouldve maken my day, was to see a nice score and a good review to really close of that chapter.
And know what mistakes i made, so i wont put them in my new map (its there, but i wait patiently untill I get review)

That's exactly why I like reviews, and I read many reviews - not just for those on my maps. I've gleaned many insights from reviews that I've incorporated into some of my maps.

I hear your frustration and agree with you that things could be done better/differently, but we just don't have the staff. I'm looking forward to getting back into reviewing but I'm not sure how soon that'll be.
I also don't know why I couldn't find Sirea in the queue. Erg.
Anyways, since you requested it from Iron, I'll be looking forward to reading it. :)

Cursed_Soul
15th Mar 2006, 03:55 PM
and so do i.

I wouldnt mind writing a review once in a while,
but even after reading so many reviews, and knowing a lot about the editor itself.
I find it hard to make sentences flow, and use the right words for that flow.

MassChAoS
15th Mar 2006, 08:45 PM
Thats odd, you shouldn't have been able to request a review for the same map 3 times. Likewise, it should have stayed in the queue upon the first request.

ReD_Fist
15th Mar 2006, 09:10 PM
MAN ! DANG it all,
I will tell you all right now for the empth time, make the dang lists 20 long, trust me, just change that ONLY on the front nalicity page tommarow.

I will only explain that I aint gonna explain again.

And I am with cursedsoul this round,if a map is sent 2 to 3 years ago NO REVIEW do like a radio staion, like a basement blues tuesday or somthing like that.Unless the map has exstrordinary qualities, sure it should get reviewed. "."

All other maps wich requested by author is purebull**** , why , the people should be the best part of the review.
So 95% of the maps can go OFF the cue, to run a good site that people will goto.

Add a "daily" map pick thing ,click here to see the level pick of the day.

ReD_Fist
15th Mar 2006, 09:25 PM
and so do i.

I wouldnt mind writing a review once in a while,
but even after reading so many reviews, and knowing a lot about the editor itself.
I find it hard to make sentences flow, and use the right words for that flow.


You should dude.

Go for it, I trust you, mainly because you mapped in UT THEN ut04, so you CAN do reviews.
say 1 a week.

DO IT ggggassssshhhh actualy I think you will be the best one really.flow of words or no flow, screw that.

ArcadiaVincennes
15th Mar 2006, 10:39 PM
All other maps wich requested by author is purebull**** , why , the people should be the best part of the review.
So 95% of the maps can go OFF the cue, to run a good site that people will goto.

Reviews are for authors, AND for the community/'people'. I've found that often the 'people' check the bottom line and the score, perhaps they read the gameplay section. I am sure there are 'people' that read reviews in their entirety, I'm just making a generalization. In your opinion, this would mean that the visual and technical portions of the review should be scrapped. If we did that, then another method for an author to learn to improve gets defenestrated. And I certainly diasagree with that considering those sections have helped me personally in addition to the gameplay section. And if another avenue of educating authors gets closed, then you'll be stuck with more DM-RedeemerCylinder maps than good ones - which is the opposite of what you want.

And if we deleted all the author requested maps from the queue, we'd be left with very little - true. But in addition to reviews of good maps, you'd be stuck with reviews of DM-RedeemerInABoxFullOfSkarrj. And last time I checked, the quantities of each would be about the same, but with the 'good' maps on the losing side of that proportion.

I know you want to see the front page flooded with reviews of only quality maps. But I don't see that ever happening.

Cursed_Soul
17th Mar 2006, 03:35 AM
Hey arc,

Any way you or a tut could learn me what to focus at when writing a review?
Its a weird question since i read a lot of nc's reviews.
But only reading might not be enough.

If i have some time, i might give it a try :)

ArcadiaVincennes
17th Mar 2006, 05:57 AM
I'd be happy to. I'll write something up and pm you sometime this weekend.

:)

Ironblayde
17th Mar 2006, 11:32 PM
Cursed_Soul: I have a couple other requests to take care of first, but I'll get to your map when I can, hopefully in a week or so. I had a brief look at it and it looks quite promising, so I'm looking forward to spending some time with it.


Anyways, since you requested it from Iron, I'll be looking forward to reading it. :)
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm glad someone is reading these things! Speaking of which, if you do end up writing some reviewing guidelines or whatever, I'd be interested to see what you come up with, and maybe adding some thoughts of my own. Who knows, maybe it could become a resource for others who might be interested in contributing.

ArcadiaVincennes
18th Mar 2006, 10:51 AM
Cursed_Soul: I have a couple other requests to take care of first, but I'll get to your map when I can, hopefully in a week or so. I had a brief look at it and it looks quite promising, so I'm looking forward to spending some time with it.


Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm glad someone is reading these things! Speaking of which, if you do end up writing some reviewing guidelines or whatever, I'd be interested to see what you come up with, and maybe adding some thoughts of my own. Who knows, maybe it could become a resource for others who might be interested in contributing.

Well, Twreks wrote the 'review schema' that's on the site here, I wouldn't want to replace that as it's a good, concise, overview, and my thing will be vastly more detailed, but perhaps it could be of some use. I'll send you a copy too Iron. Also, I know Taleweaver from Insite has a good Review article on his website so check that out too.
I know I already have something half-written up, But I think it's at work. I'll check and pm the both of you when I've finished it.

Cursed_Soul
18th Mar 2006, 04:22 PM
thanks guys :)
Take your time ironblade, i'm patient :)

MassChAoS
18th Mar 2006, 08:55 PM
Insite just reviewed Sirea... guess they wanted to grant your request.

Swanky
19th Mar 2006, 09:28 AM
What's happened to G&S? Is he cut off again?

Ironblayde
19th Mar 2006, 02:01 PM
I was wondering that myself. A few weeks ago he turned out nine or ten reviews with superhuman speed and then disappeared. Maybe he's burrowed away in his gnome-hole busily writing his next batch of reviews. Or maybe we just gave him too much **** over DM-Megatomb][. :)

Swanky
19th Mar 2006, 02:18 PM
Hm... Okay. I was just wondering because he said he wanted to do the FlagsofTime Review right away.

Ironblayde
20th Mar 2006, 05:09 PM
His forum profile (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/member.php?u=48861) lists contact information via ICQ and MSN, so you could try those if you haven't already. Be sure to let the rest of us know if you hear from him. If Gnome comes back and starts writing again, maybe we could get the number of review requests in the queue down to a more manageable number... like 950.

Swanky
15th Apr 2006, 08:22 AM
He seems pretty dead. I waited for a couple weeks now, and he still hasn't applied me to his list. Anyway...
*cough* *cough*
FlagsOfTime (http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=8637)
*cough*
FragsOfTime (http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=9101)

Ironblayde
15th Apr 2006, 02:00 PM
That's unfortunate. It would be nice having another active reviewer around. Anyway, I've got a few requests I'm working on right now, but once I get them done, I'll look into reviewing one of those packs, probably Frags since that request hasn't been claimed by anyone.

The Flags pack is in Gnome's personal queue. He's been inactive long enough that I can pull the request, but I'd hate to do that only to have him turn up a few days later and say that he'd started a review a long time ago or something. Reviewing a pack takes a lot of time and I'd hate for him to waste it if he's still out there. That said, I certainly won't let the request sit there forever if Gnome isn't coming back. I'm just not going to pick it up right this minute.

Swanky
15th Apr 2006, 04:50 PM
Once I got my final exams done, I might do some. But don't take it for granted.

Twrecks
17th Apr 2006, 03:47 PM
I'm writing a review for DM-Aeris (http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/map_hub.php?mid=9129) as I'm biased towards castle type maps, and this is definately worthy of a review :)

Ironblayde
17th Apr 2006, 10:41 PM
Awesome! I love castle maps too.

cooloola
19th Apr 2006, 11:57 AM
What happened to satyrkarma?

ArcadiaVincennes
19th Apr 2006, 12:00 PM
What happened to satyrkarma?

AWOL - haven't seen him on msn for quite a while now.

Cursed_Soul
19th Apr 2006, 12:27 PM
talking about msn,
arc gimme yours lol :)

ReD_Fist
19th Apr 2006, 01:29 PM
talking about msn,
arc gimme yours lol :)

You didn't sign up for reviewr yet? !!!! C'MON, put some of that college to use.

hostile
20th Apr 2006, 02:25 PM
If everyone that is interested in this site, user made maps, and mapping would write more comments on these maps, that would do as good as a review in my oppinion. I personaly would rather more comments from a wide range of people than a review from one perspective of an over worked under paid reviewer. We all know that they can't review them all! So to all of you go write some comments. Tell them what you think. Most mappers would love to here from YOU! As long as it is constructive and not telling him he sucks becouse hes not a artist mapper.Telling him his map sucked would be OK. In return they will most likly make better maps for us all.Thats just me, what do you think?

PS:Thank you to all the reviewers at NC! your all the best.;)

cooloola
21st Apr 2006, 09:57 AM
I think experienced mappers should review and do something for the community that has served them for so long. Thst's why i started reviewing to help keep things moving at insite (and this is in no way in implaication that I'm an experienced mapper)

milb
21st Apr 2006, 12:30 PM
How could I miss this thread...?

Actually I don't know why some of the ppl are so pissed just coz there're no reviews. I never downloaded a map especially coz it got a good review, I dl maps coz they got good ratings.
So it's more important to me to see more people rate maps. I mean honest ratings, not those silly 10's of some clanmembers who rate the crap map of their clanmate...
Like hostile said. Ratings are as good as reviews. Ok, they are shorter, but it they hit the point (n00bish or l33t). And the more ratings a map gets the more the rating speak for it self.
On the other side I want you to review my maps (there're all reviewed so I don't have to ingratiate...^^). Think thats what every mapper wants...
P.S. I like the Idea of guest-/user-reviews...

Swanky
21st Apr 2006, 12:36 PM
I care for reviews when they are written the way they reflect the strenghts of the map but also the downsides. Most of the time the reviewers on NC make a wonderful job. A review has to help the mappers to understand faults and make better maps next time.
If there's a suckage review of about two sentences that try to justify the reviewer's score I can't understand that. For me, a mix of both user comment and professional review counts. A review often is more, but not completely objective, whereas the comments give you a wide range of subjective ratings may they be good or bad.

cooloola
21st Apr 2006, 12:55 PM
I agree with Swanky and milb but the prob is that most comments are too subjective and are definitely not as in depth as reviews. Plus reviews don't only point out the good stuff or the bad stuff (as most comments) but point out both so people know what to expect and mappers know what they're already good at and what they need to work on, something he can't learn from comments like "Great map, dude!!" (like most of my comments).
And i don't expect every person to post looooooooooooooong comments whereas i do expect that to be done in reivews.

milb
21st Apr 2006, 01:01 PM
Thats the other side...as mapper I want to get a review for sure. As you said, it's more helpfull then the most ratings are (to mappers).

ReD_Fist
21st Apr 2006, 01:07 PM
If a map gets reviewed it DEFINITLY 100% gets more downloads, it also shows up on a bunch of other websites fronpage.
But I agree I could settle for user comments, but dang, nalicity got to do somthing.Not just be a filespace for maps.

Twrecks
21st Apr 2006, 04:07 PM
So You Want To Be A Nali City Reviewer? (http://nalicity.beyondunreal.com/site_reviewerapp.php)
^^^please apply^^^

Swanky
21st Apr 2006, 05:53 PM
I've seen this one before.
"Pick 3 maps, fill out the document and voila. But please don't be too busy with RealLife." If that would be possible, we'd all be reviewers. :lol:
I might sign up, but only for a couple of months, before Reallife catches me again. :lol:

Ironblayde
21st Apr 2006, 06:22 PM
That application says you should have time to test and review three maps a week (!) but don't let that stop you from applying. Nobody has enough time to do that. I can't speak for the powers that be, but in my opinion even just two or three reviews a month would be very welcome.

ReD_Fist
21st Apr 2006, 08:40 PM
I am not elitest enough to be a reviewer, a lot of comments I see from these so called pro mappers on my maps say absolutly nothing of whats wrong with maps other than looks.
Thier several mappers wich around here don't give much thought to ,Soma The real.Reason being, they can't map as good so they just ignore adding comments because they know it all.
He makes maps that make sense but none of those guys ever pay much attention.
If I reviewd they would treat me like pres Bush lol. and I would have to make an appeal to foxnews.

ArcadiaVincennes
21st Apr 2006, 10:17 PM
I am not elitest enough to be a reviewer,

I'm sorry you think of us/me as elitist. If I come across that way it's certainly an accident.

[/offended]

ReD_Fist
21st Apr 2006, 10:44 PM
I'm sorry you think of us/me as elitist. If I come across that way it's certainly an accident.

[/offended]

Not exactly "elitest" but lets say lowly ol red fist did a review, it wouldn't have any merit because I don't make elitest maps.

Going back to my quake1 maps wich got slapped with zero's, 95% of the commentors along with cursed soul have NO IDEA what the merit of the maps were.
They don't relise it took me like 3 months or longer to do one map, and they also wouldn't know why it took so long.
I mean I didn't work on them 1 hour a day, hell one map i spent frickin 8 hours or more a day for like 3 weeks, just allighning the textures to match up to quake1.

All they could say is "redo" I don't think you will find any other "redo's" of q1 maps out there wich look like whle in q1.
Wich was the soul purpose of doing them, more than play or looks.

Then rather than much fanfair hourences just said" well if we reviewd redo's then everybody will think it's a good thing to make remakes". pffft.

If I re upload another q1 map it will still have the same comments stored on it after it gets approved and you would see.

I dunno I look for what the author was trying to do and create more than comparing to pro maps.

Ironblayde
21st Apr 2006, 11:39 PM
Not exactly "elitest" but lets say lowly ol red fist did a review, it wouldn't have any merit because I don't make elitest maps.
The word you seem to be looking for in this context is "elite." If someone is "elitist," it means that he is (or believes himself to be) a member of an elite, and looks down on everyone who isn't. So when you say that you're not elitist enough to be a reviewer, you're basically accusing all the current reviewers of being snobby bastards. :) Which is why Arcadia was offended. It seems like it was a mistake, though?

By the way, you don't need to be an elite mapper to be taken seriously as a reviewer. I'm certainly not a great mapper, and I probably never will be, but people still ask me for reviews. It's more about how well you understand how effective level design is carried out, even if you have trouble doing it yourself.

Regarding your Quake map(s) -- which I haven't seen -- I can understand getting upset when people look down on something you worked hard on. But I also understand the point of view of someone who rates such a map badly. The vast majority of people assign scores to a map based on how it stacks up to other maps released for the same game -- its visuals, its originality, its gameplay, etc. Of course a direct port of a map from an old game is going to do badly in such a system. If people were grading the accuracy of your conversion instead, you'd do a lot better. But people don't do that, because that's not what most players care about. People assign scores based on how closely your map fits what they want to see.

Of course, many people are not worth listening to. :) When you get a comment that's not relevant to what you're looking for, just forget about it. If you're going to release maps, you have to have a thick skin.

ReD_Fist
21st Apr 2006, 11:54 PM
True ^

I put this link for the other thread, but go look at the side for the way they scored games, it looks a lot more accurate than the way its done here. and more fun too.
But any or every suggestion I ever made in more than a year is allways shortcircuited by hourences,bot40,mass chaos, and any other person.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/unreal-
But i would not want to run the site so I don't have much room for complaints on the user score system or the review schema wich is so convoluted.

instead of this
"AWE" when i first got back to nalicity and even still AWE wtf is AWE hehe.
"CAST" cast? wth are these movies?
"whatever the other one is"

but it should read
"gameplay"
"AI"
"graphics"
"build"

and i really like that graph or the "personal slant" they used on there scoring.in that link.

ArcadiaVincennes
22nd Apr 2006, 07:03 AM
instead of this
"AWE" when i first got back to nalicity and even still AWE wtf is AWE hehe.
"CAST" cast? wth are these movies?
"whatever the other one is"

but it should read
"gameplay"
"AI"
"graphics"
"build"


Awe - go to dictionary.com. It means pretty much the same as 'graphics' in your list. So we have graphics, and build, and cast is gameplay. The only thing we're missing from your list is AI and that's covered in build & cast.

Anyways, thanks for not thinking I'm elitist (I think).

cooloola
22nd Apr 2006, 03:20 PM
In a very good week i could maybe hatch down 2 full map reviews max. 3 is too much as one review takes minimum 3 hours so imagine 9 hours of reviewing a week. Maybe someone should change teh application form as it's too intimidating

Ironblayde
22nd Apr 2006, 03:32 PM
I agree, cooloola.

ArcadiaVincennes
22nd Apr 2006, 04:33 PM
I'd support bringing it down to 1 or 2 per week.

ReD_Fist
22nd Apr 2006, 06:45 PM
But then we should be garenteed the reviews, a constant drip to keep the front page happening.
So say four reviewers, 2 a week 8 reviews per week.
10 reviewres, 1 per week leaving 2 to dropout for real life. 8 reviews.

i my mind 2 a week per person is too much, but if each did one consistantly things would run pretty smooth .
So in reality 4 people would stick to it giving the slackers to fill in whenever so four solid reviews one per person per week, would be the best situation.
so garenteed 4 reviews per week.plus the slackers when ever they do one for fill ins.

ArcadiaVincennes
22nd Apr 2006, 08:11 PM
There's no way to 'guarantee' them, plus, the goal to reducing the 'required' amount would be to increase the consistancy of reviews... so ... yeah.

Hourences
23rd Apr 2006, 01:47 PM
I agree that it might be intimitating and that 2 or perhaps even one would be better.
The problem is only Masschaos can change that. Believe me I would make a lot of misc. small text changes on the site if I could but I cant.
Mass around ?

MassChAoS
23rd Apr 2006, 03:07 PM
I don't think reducing the number will encourage more reviewers to apply... nor would that amount of reviews be produced consistently by any current or applying reviewers. Likewise, no one can guarantee reviews... it just doesn't work.

cooloola
23rd Apr 2006, 03:58 PM
I was going to aply to NC but backed out because 3 per week seemed pretty intimidating so instead i went over to Insite. And like i said earlier 9 hours of reviewing per week is impossible to achieve with many people's busy schedule. So i think changing the apllication page would make a change. And maybe also a news post asking for reviewers would go a long way. Plus you have to remember that reviewers do what they do out of their own free will and do not receive any reward in exchange so you shouldn't be too demanding.
Anyway that's just my opinion and i stand by it.

Hourences
23rd Apr 2006, 04:04 PM
It wont make a big difference but it can make A difference and it is also just to offer correct info. Its info thats years old, it could use some updating.

ReD_Fist
23rd Apr 2006, 07:57 PM
Like I wrote in the other thread, some links are messed up on the link page.
Insite goes to planetunreal.

Twrecks
23rd Apr 2006, 11:21 PM
Don't make me defend the schema again, again!
Simply put, "it's easy as ABC 123", just like the Micheal Jackson song. :p

As to the number of reviews... uh, yea. Just did my first this year o_O

MassChAoS
23rd Apr 2006, 11:46 PM
cooloola, we're not demanding... do you see any other reviewer doing 3 reviews a week? not lately. not often. And ideally 3 reviews a week isn't demanding, just no one wants to do that since "reviewers do what they do out of their own free will and do not receive any reward in exchange".

In any case, I changed the "requirement" to "1" like 8 hours ago since it appears that no one has taking any notice.

cooloola
24th Apr 2006, 10:06 AM
Thank you. Let's just hope that someone applies.

milb
25th Apr 2006, 12:21 PM
Better make a news post...the ppl that don't wanted to be reviewer coz it's too much to do won't look at the reviewer application site again in the hope something has changed...

Edit: Hm, is it possible to place the link leading to the application site into the menu? Coz the link is on the bottom of the newssite which for sure won't help to get reviewers...

ReD_Fist
7th May 2006, 04:55 PM
Anyone know what happend to that "RA" map pack conversion.? or why it was removed.