Does God exist

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lifes_a_bitch

New Member
Sep 19, 2003
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I will now prove that God exists in a purely scientifical way.
The existence of God is a subject that has occupied schools of philosophy and theology for thousands of years. Most of the time, these debates have revolved around all kinds of assumptions and definitions. Philosophers will spend a lifetime arguing about the meaning of a word and never really get there.
Most of us who live and work in the real world do not concern ourselves with such activities. We realize that such discussions may have value and interest in the academic world, but the stress and pressure of day-to-day life forces us to deal with a very pragmatic way of making decisions. If I ask you to prove to me that you have £5.00, you would show it to me. Even in more abstract things we use common sense and practical reasoning. If I ask you whether a certain person is honest or not, you do not flood the air with dissertations on the relative nature of honesty; you would give me evidence one way or the other. The techniques of much of the philosophical arguments that go on would eliminate most of engineering and technology if they were applied in those fields.

The purpose of this brief study is to offer a logical, practical, pragmatic proof of the existence of God from a purely scientific perspective. To do this, we are assuming that we exist, that there is reality, and that the matter of which we are made is real. If you do not believe that you exist, you have bigger problems than this study will entail and you will have to look elsewhere.

THE BEGINNING

If we do exist, there are only two possible explanations as to how our existence came to be. Either we had a beginning or we did not have a beginning. The Bible says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1 :1). The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning. The idea is that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and all that has happened is that matter has been changed from form to

form, but it has always been. The Humanist Manifesto says, "Matter is self-existing and not created," and that is a concise statement of the atheist's belief.

The way we decide whether the atheist is correct or not is to see what science has discovered about this question. The picture below on the left represents our part of the cosmos. Each of the disk shaped objects is a galaxy like our Milky Way. All of these galaxies are moving relative to each other. Their movement has a very distinct pattern which causes the distance between the galaxies to get greater with every passing day. If we had three galaxies located at positions A, B. and C arranged in a triangluar postition, tomorrow they will be further apart. The triangle they form will be bigger. The day after tomorrow the triangle will be bigger yet. We live in an expanding universe that gets bigger and bigger and bigger with every passing day.
Now let us suppose that we made time run backwards! If we are located at a certain distance today, then yesterday we were closer together. The day before that, we were still closer. Ultimately, where must all the galaxies have been? At a point! At the beginning! At what scientists call a singularity!

A second proof is seen in the energy sources that fuel the cosmos. The picture to the right is a picture of the sun. Like all stars, the sun generates its energy by a nuclear process known as thermonuclear fusion. Every second that passes, the sun compresses 564 million tons of hydrogen into 560 million tons of helium with 4 million tons of matter released as energy. In spite of that tremendous consumption of fuel, the sun has only used up 2% of the hydrogen it had the day it came into existence. This incredible furnace is not a process confined to the sun. Every star in the sky generates its energy in the same way. Throughout the cosmos there are 25 quintillion stars, each converting hydrogen into helium, thereby reducing the total amount of hydrogen in the cosmos. Just think about it! If everywhere in the cosmos hydrogen is being consumed and if the process has been going on forever, how much hydrogen should be left?

Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas (fuel) into it. As I drive and drive, what is eventually going to happen? I am going to run out of gas I If the cosmos has been here forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is, however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe! Everywhere we look in space we can see the hydrogen 21 cm line in the spectrum_a piece of light is only given off by hydrogen. This could not be unless we had a beginning!

A third scientific proof that the atheist is wrong is seen in the second law of thermodynamics. In any closed system, things tend to become disordered. If an automobile is driven for years and years without repair, for example, it will become so disordered that it would not run any more. Getting old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also get old. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is "everything that ever was or is or ever will be," as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded.

The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

If we know the creation has a beginning, we are faced with another logical question_was the creation caused or was it not caused? The Bible states, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Not only does the Bible maintain that there was a cause_a creation_but it also tells us what the cause was. It was God. The atheist tells us that "matter is self-existing and not created." If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem.

In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws dealing with the conservation of matter/energy would have to be wrong, invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of angular momentum would have to be wrong, invalidating all of physics. All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be wrong, invalidating all of electronics and demanding that your TV set not work!! Your television set may not work, but that is not the reason! In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.

The atheist's assertion that matter is eternal is wrong. The atheist's assertion that the universe is uncaused and selfexisting is also incorrect The Bible's assertion that there was a beginning which was caused is supported strongly by the available scientific evidence.

THE DESIGN

If we know that the creation had a beginning and we know that the beginning was caused, there is one last question for us to answer--what was the cause? The Bible tells us that God was the cause. We are further told that the God who did the causing did so with planning and reason and logic. Romans 1:20 tells us that we can know God is

"through the things he has made." The atheist, on the other hand, will try to convince us that we are the product of chance. Julian Huxley once said:

We are as much a product of blind forces as is the falling of a stone to earth or the ebb and flow of the tides. We have just happened, and man was made flesh by a long series of singularly beneficial accidents.
The subject of design has been one that has been explored in many different ways. For most of us, simply looking at our newborn child is enough to rule out chance. Modern-day scientists like Paul Davies and Frederick Hoyle and others are raising elaborate objections to the use of chance in explaining natural phenomena. A principle of modern science has emerged in the 1980s called "the anthropic principle." The basic thrust of the anthropic principle is that chance is simply not a valid mechanism to explain the atom or life. If chance is not valid, we are constrained to reject Huxley's claim and to realize that we are the product of an intelligent God.
 

Ulukai

Active Member
May 2, 2000
1,524
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BangOut/Hackr/Twrecks/The Other one, can we feed the trolls?

plzplzplzplzplzplz
 

Zlal

New but not improved.
Nov 4, 2001
1,285
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Exeter
Spirit, your sig is huge. And ugly. Thats a crime.

BTW, shouldn't we try to guess who this actually is?
 
Geez, throw a religious thread out there and it gets posts quicker than anything.

For a scientific arguement, you seem to base alot of your arguement on bullshiit. Your arguement (and it is obviously ripped from an article cus you didnt include the pics) has no distinct backbone or proof, and you don't use bible refrences as filler for a scientific argument.


And let us just say that there WAS a begining to the universe, which nobody can prove scientifically or spiritually, how exactly does this mean that there is an almighty supreme being up in the sky? And how can we prove that there isn't?

One spec of sand on a shoreline is what we are, when you think about it...it is kinda stupid for anyone to presume to "have all the facts".
 

Balton

The Beast of Worship
Mar 6, 2001
13,428
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Berlin
moleman! shut the **** up! I unmasked you just like I always do on irc! 0wned!
 
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GMotha

The nipples from Napels
Nov 3, 2001
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Antwerp
gmotha.deviantart.com
When it comes to religion, there are no proofs.
Nothing can prove the exsistance of God, no evidence is found of the socalled "beginning". Evolution is more likely to have happened than building a man out of dirt and a woman out of a rib.
Offcourse there's a 'beginning' for the earth itself, but not for the universum. Think logical: there has always happened something before any moment, time is endless.

And materie or energy can be created, so can life (energy, water and a few million years is all you need).
 
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Nachimir

Crony of Stilgar
Aug 13, 2001
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Shelf Adventure.
You know how if you hit a knee with someting it jerks... well :eek:

lifes_a_bitch said:
The atheist has always maintained that there was no beginning.

That was the first completely false assertion, on which the entirety of the argument you have cut and pasted hangs.

Both popular theories presuppose a linear thread of time in which either god or the universe came from "nothing" or "something else", yet neither is currently provable; both reach back into a time about which we can only speculate. What caused god? If god is infinite, how can he possibly even act? It is only through being finite that we are even capable of consciousness, action and perception, thus an onmipotent being that can act and communicate like a human, as the bible has it, would have to be contained within the universe itself.

lifes_a_bitch said:
there is a logical problem.

Damn straight.

All we can do is evaluate the facts we do have, then infer. When it comes to physical evidence, I know which side I fall on, and it's not that of faith in words, because they're the ultimate in abstraction and simulation.

The argument you have used is a fairly typical one deployed by jehovah's witnesses. It's not big and it's not clever.
 
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