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View Full Version : UTPure - keep it or kick it?


Sexmachine
11th Aug 2003, 10:49 AM
As you know, the Jailbreak MotherShip (http://80.86.190.72:8888/ServerAdmin/stats/) makes use of the latest client side hack protection called UTPure (http://forums.utpure.com/). I really like to know what you think about this protection in general and if UTPure should stay or should be removed from the server.

CoolDude
11th Aug 2003, 11:06 AM
Keep it.
Otherwise I'm never sure if others are really that good (which automatically means I'm not).
:cool:

Birelli
11th Aug 2003, 11:39 AM
I think kick it, for a couple of reasons. First, as already debated in another thread, I don't think it would mean all that much reduced protection for the server. I somehow doubt we even need protection against this stuff, but it's always possible, however I think and older version will still be reasonably good at stopping "casual" cheaters.

The second is a matter of gameplay, which is that UTPure is seriously screwing things up. With every new version of Pure (or so it seems), comes another slew of small, but cumulative, bugs. Several of these don't even seem to be Jailbreak-related. If and when a seriously bug-reduced version of Pure comes out, it might be worth the Jailbreak-related issues (if there even are any, I'm not even convinced all the bugs so far aren't solely Pure-induced) to put the newest version back on.

On a totally different note, most aimbot use is with instagib and face-or-face-like-only servers. With the JB Mothership on normal weapons and with many maps that are very ill-suited for sniping, the vast majority of aimbotters would be little or no threat, in fact I've actually played instagib in EternalCaves against an aimbotter and not only beaten the guys team by a large margin, but had more frags then the aimbotter.

In my view, people largely overrate the effectiveness of aimbots, largely because they haven't really played against people using aimbots, since they are fairly rare even on completely un-protected servers.

Mychaeel
11th Aug 2003, 11:41 AM
Run UTPure 53, the last version that was tested and confirmed to run well with Jailbreak III. (And please don't give me that "It's no use to run an older version" nonsense.)

Sexmachine
11th Aug 2003, 11:56 AM
Nope, I'll give you this "nonsense" instead (copied from this thread (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/showthread.php?t=111815)):

The MotherShip server is running the latest UTPG (http://www.utpg.org/) patch V451 and unfortunately just the last three versions of UTPure (6C,D or E) do support this patch. Downgrading to UTPure53 (and thus downgrading to UT V436) would open up a couple of security holes and offer cheaters a lot of possibilities that "could" take away the fun from playing at the Mo'ship.

Hopefully the next UTPG patch is coming along with a working MD5 protection (as we may get rid of UTPure that way) ...

So it's either keep up with the latest Pure or remove it completely.

Foetal Youth
11th Aug 2003, 12:15 PM
Whats wrong with using CSHP?

Mychaeel
11th Aug 2003, 12:24 PM
CSHP is even older than UTPure.

I read that thread, Sexmachine, but to me it sounds as if those "security holes" that are "opened" by UTPure 53 are simply those that were closed by later versions; and not security holes that would not be in the patched server without any version of UTPure being run.

Do I understand you correctly there?

Trueblood
11th Aug 2003, 01:23 PM
Keep it!
As Birelli said, the problems are minor. All thats needed is to change your setting Before play. If you think about it, changing setting during play is an excuse to camp and lagg everyone down (not by much i know) but things are fine!

Sexmachine
11th Aug 2003, 01:26 PM
Yeah Mych, if I understand you correctly you've understood me correctly - that's why I have summed it up by saying we can have:

a.) NO Pure at all (but Patch 451 running to take care of the DOS prob)
b.) Pure Version 6C,D or E (but no older ones, as they do NOT work with Patch 451 - same goes for CSHP+ afaik)

Mychaeel
11th Aug 2003, 06:19 PM
Ah. So you cannot run UTPure 53 on a server patched to version 451. Previously, it sounded to me as if you didn't want to run UTPure 53 because you believed it would be futile.

Sexmachine
11th Aug 2003, 06:26 PM
Yes, that's my point here - I cannot run older Pures without going back to UT Patch 436 (and the 436 patch allows for a DOS attack and some sort of "forced client crash" by using a corrupt player skin).

Downgrading to UTPure53 (just assuming this would work with the 451 patch) isn't futile, but would not defeat those hacks/bots/radars developed since August (?) 2002 - and if those dirt bags (the cheaters) do update just one single piece of their software it's those hacks/bots/radars. :(

KrazyK
12th Aug 2003, 12:33 AM
Since MapVote has a kick feature do we really need to worry about people cheating. Hopefully all of us will have guts to stand up and do what's right and kick the offending player.:mad: I also agree with Birelli that the Mothership doesn't run many maps that would attract aimbotters and the like. So I say: KICK IT!

TheSpoonDog
12th Aug 2003, 02:21 AM
Were the security holes in v436 that bad? (like, is v451 patch worth it?). v436 with UTPure 53 would at least make it harder for n00b aimbotters. If I had to choose for either of your two options, I would say kick it altogether (or downgrade to v436 and UT Pure 53, if that's an option)...

]yS[concrete
12th Aug 2003, 02:38 AM
as far as ive heard the 451 patch was basically made to patch up that backdoor that the DDOS attacks exploited (altho it seems like they didnt happen until this patch was released... hmmmm...)

alotta ppl seem to think it's just a HUGE step forward in hack protection but i dont THINK it is... but supposedly there's a really substantial update to PURE that's supposed to be released soon...

also, there's so many kinds of bots... geezus... but i mean you also gotta think... if someone is completely 100% waaaaay too obviously botting, everyone can kick em or an admin can ban if theyre around... and if it's not obvious then it's probably not really disrupting gameplay all that much anyway right?

Wormbo
12th Aug 2003, 04:17 AM
Were the security holes in v436 that bad? (like, is v451 patch worth it?). v436 with UTPure 53 would at least make it harder for n00b aimbotters. If I had to choose for either of your two options, I would say kick it altogether (or downgrade to v436 and UT Pure 53, if that's an option)...
Epic concidered them bad enough to not advertise pre-2199 UT2003 servers through the master server anymore which have the same issues.
I'd say kick UTPure. That might even open up the server for more mods and mutators that wouldn't work with UTPure.

Sexmachine
12th Aug 2003, 06:14 AM
Since MapVote has a kick feature do we really need to worry about people cheating.The MapVote kick feature is pretty useless as players can only kick people and not kickban them, so cheaters can easily spoil the game as they are able to come back all of the time. You need an admin around to really take care of them.Hopefully all of us will have guts to stand up and do what's right and kick the offending player. The downside of this is the fact that -without Pure- players tend to think that e.g. "PlayerX is way too good so he must be cheating" ... don't understimate the power of humanoid paranoia. :) I also agree with Birelli that the Mothership doesn't run many maps that would attract aimbotters and the like.I completely disagree in that point. There are so many different hacks available (not just aimbots) so cheaters can have the right one for the right situation on just about every map - aimbots and other weapon hacks for the '100% kills', a radar to know where the enemies are, or even a wallhack to see (and shoot?) through solids.Epic concidered them bad enough to not advertise pre-2199 UT2003 servers through the master server anymore which have the same issues.Yepp, that's why downgrading to UT V436 is not an option.I'd say kick UTPure. That might even open up the server for more mods and mutators that wouldn't work with UTPure.By now I (we) have always managed to get the mutators to work on the Mo'ship along with UTPure ... if we come to the point where we can't get a mutator to work because of UTPure, I am the first to take UTPure down (at least temporarily).

Very interesting thread so far (and it's 50/50 atm.) ... any more opinions?

TheSpoonDog
12th Aug 2003, 08:16 AM
Well... on the other hand now that I think about it... are the problems that bad? The enforcer invisible, and the occasional screen stuck in the death sequence (which I found was able to be fixed in some cases by switching views to a teammate and back)... maybe it's better to just keep the latest UTPure on. I've never experienced an aimbotter, nor have I ever seen one being used... I haven't even seen what they are! :p So I don't really have much idea about the size of the problem - cheating is pathetic and ruins the game because games are all about testing your skill against yourself I thought, not how big of a score you can get :rolleyes: . But back on topic...

Is it possible to mention to the authors of UTPure about these problems and perhaps they could add some fix for the next release?

Sexmachine
12th Aug 2003, 08:35 AM
Is it possible to mention to the authors of UTPure about these problems and perhaps they could add some fix for the next release?I already did that, but for some unknown reasons the authors of UTPure do not care that much about gametypes other than the standard UT ones :(

Katana
12th Aug 2003, 08:36 AM
Kick it. i got kicked from the mo' ship 5 times cos it found an "Impurity" in my client, WTF.
I dunno if it was just that annoying alcatraz map having a hissy fit or something but it completely ruined my JB playing on Monday.

Sexmachine
12th Aug 2003, 08:47 AM
I got kicked from the mo' ship 5 times cos it found an "Impurity" in my client There is a 99,9% chance of fixing that one, as a very common reason for that is you may have UTPure (doesn't make a difference what version) installed on your PC. If thats the case, delete all files that somehow belong to UTPure. You'll find them in your UT\System directory - look out for (and delete) files like:
UTPureRCXX.u
BP1HandlerXX.u
BP4HandlerXX.u
If that does not help, clear your UT\Cache folder too.

dalton
12th Aug 2003, 08:53 AM
I think the problem's are minor and don't weight up to the possibility of ppl spoiling games trough cheating and/or harassing. So it's keep it for me.

]yS[concrete
12th Aug 2003, 03:35 PM
what ever happened to having to have pure installed clientside??

i remember being forced to install PURE5+ and then when i reinstalled UT recently i didnt need it... all i had to do was have the latest pure cached...

Birelli
12th Aug 2003, 06:56 PM
Pure isn't supposed to be installed client-side. The idea is that the server's version is given to the client upon connecting. UT does of course store the files in cache, so you don't need to keep downloading them, but this isn't usually considered "installing" the files. Actually "installing" Pure on a client can lead to problems.

]yS[concrete
12th Aug 2003, 10:12 PM
im not sure which version it was, but some version of PURE recently REQUIRED users to install PURE5+ clientside... MANY people were pissed for a long time cuz they kept gettin kicked outta places like Rambos and Redstars and NLA and other server names that mean nothing to non-insta players when they installed it... you HAD TO install it clientside it was done on purpose i suppose to give better protection.... and yet soon after the new updates didnt require it anymore :-\

just kinda sucks that they caused all that trouble and then just kinda stopped using it so soon already...