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RaptoR
11th Jul 2003, 06:54 PM
Some sad news today from one of the more promising UT2003 modifications. The UT2003 Troopers project will not be released under the current name, but will instead be released as 'Troopers: Dawn of Destiny'. Here's what BadKarma, former Trooper Lead Developer had to say:

It is my sad duty to inform you that troopers rise of the rebellion will not be released.

Team members have pretty much stolen the mod from under me. The plan is to change the name and release it, erase me from the modification totally. I fail to see how you can erase someone who conceived the mod concept 3 years ago, pore his heart into it. Fought for it, brought the team together, and has guided it through leadership until its first demo release.

I am sure that there will be a lot of posts over the next few days about who did what and why, and as I did not agree to sign over the mod and all my maps to members of the team, I will be in for some public harassment as they stated in their transfer document.

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Update: A press release has been released by another member of the Troopers team, and can be found here.

The second reason it's taken so long to post an update has been the unfortunate leave BadKarma has taken from the team. The Project Lead of Troopers: Rise of the Rebellion since its inception, BadKarma has moved on from Troopers, and will be working on a new modification with his time. Many individuals may be afraid for the future of Troopers, so the developers he has left behind are adamant about giving you all a very important message: the Troopers Development Team is stronger than it has ever been. Working day and night to release this mod, no details have been spared the final release of the Demo. Everything we said we were going to release, we ARE going to release, and that's just the demo.

[IsP]KaRnAgE
11th Jul 2003, 06:58 PM
FFS!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Original9
11th Jul 2003, 07:17 PM
The irony. :(

Sorry is happened to you, Bad Karma. :(

Buckyfg
11th Jul 2003, 11:37 PM
wtf, something isnt right here

Gen. Disarray
11th Jul 2003, 11:39 PM
A lot of people are posting on the Troopers forum and crying that they should get an explenation. WHY?!?!?! It's none of our business, we are fans but they owe us nothing, no explenation, nothing. It's a FREE mod people!

Freon
12th Jul 2003, 02:08 AM
what a bunch of fscking morons :mad:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=173834

BlAcK_PlAgUe22
12th Jul 2003, 02:17 AM
Yeah. This is pretty poor taste of the Troopers team sans BK. :tdown:

I don't care if he's been a jackass, you don't just sit there and give him a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo about taking the mod as a going away present. :mad:

Sparky
12th Jul 2003, 02:29 AM
That's just ****ed... I don't care who they think they are, you just don't do that.

A message from me to the other Troopers members: Get a ****ing life!

Original9
12th Jul 2003, 03:43 AM
BLACK MAIL

beta_aquilae
12th Jul 2003, 04:05 AM
my god 3 years.. that not right.. The ppl that did this should be run out of the ut2k3 and ut community, with them covered in feathers and tar.
We should ban them from servers. And have there names never spoken again.

When they wanna release a mod, we just give them the finger. No one deserves that kinda of robbery and disrespect.

Sorry this happened to you badkarma, I stand with you man.

IntRed
12th Jul 2003, 04:33 AM
its a shame really, BK's one of the most respected unreal community members, to get kicked out in this situation.
In any case i'm definatly NOT going to download troopers, they lost every bit of support from me.

I'm also baffled by the way those guys handled the situation PR wise, they hit rockbottom imo, wonder how they are going to get out of this one.

Ulukai
12th Jul 2003, 04:49 AM
Something just doesn't add up here.

If 11 people feel so strongly that BK is a bad leader, and that his behaviour is unconstructive, maybe they have a point.

I've witnessed the follwing behaviour regarding his non-troopers work from him on public forums/his website before:

" emotional outbursts resultant in discomfort and production slowdown amongst the team members; defensive attitude and inability to receive active and progressive criticism from [team members]."

Before y'all go getting rowdy, you might want to peek over the other side of the fence, and listen to what the other guys have to say.

Swedix
12th Jul 2003, 05:46 AM
I have read the posts over there, and to me it seems that some people just getting greedy :(
$$

hal
12th Jul 2003, 06:18 AM
But Swedix, there are no $$ to be made on a mod based on George Lucas' intellectual properties.

Swedix
12th Jul 2003, 06:35 AM
But Swedix, there are no $$ to be made on a mod based on George Lucas' intellectual properties.

I might be wrong, but I was think of MSU.

IntRed
12th Jul 2003, 06:44 AM
they started censoring the new forums :rolleyes:
Djeez, nice way to get the public to read your story, not

hal
12th Jul 2003, 06:54 AM
I might be wrong, but I was think of MSU.

Entries aren't allowed to contain copyrighted material. It'd be kinda hard to strip all of that out of this mod. ;)

Swedix
12th Jul 2003, 07:12 AM
Entries aren't allowed to contain copyrighted material. It'd be kinda hard to strip all of that out of this mod. ;)

Not even if they are allowed from the legal owners of the copyrighted material?
From what I read in the 'drama-thread', they are entering this mod to MSU.

Sparky
12th Jul 2003, 07:18 AM
If they enter (which I don't think they should bother doing, simply because the mod isn't original) and they win... they simply don't get any prizes or the engine. Seems pointless to me, and after reading all those threads it seems the boys couldn't take BK's lets wait a few more days/weeks before releasing the demo. Greedy indeed, and you've gotta laugh at that crappy legel-smegal they sent him... that's blackmail boys, get a grip.

ActionHaNk
12th Jul 2003, 07:42 AM
That legal crap is really a sad thing. It's a frikkin' mod ffs :S It is supposed to be fun...Or am I wrong??... hmmm

Captain Kewl
12th Jul 2003, 10:35 AM
What would happen if we locked BadKarma and Optimizer in a room together?

Mychaeel
12th Jul 2003, 11:05 AM
Apart from everything else, we have an example of very poor team management here---especially on part of the team in these recent events, ironically.

From a diplomatic point of view already it's an utterly bad idea to send somebody an ultimatum that leaves them with no other choices than either to fight or to go down with a bang; especially somebody emotionally attached to the project and known to make public drama out of it as BadKarma.

The letter itself speaks volumes about the amount of frustration that must have built up in the team below BadKarma's leadership. Obviously BadKarma has done something fundamentally wrong in his position to remain oblivious of all the grudges held against him until faced with a hostile letter from his entire team. Team structures where the leader reserves the right to determine the team's entire course at his own discretion generally only work out either if that right is never invoked or if binding legal contracts and proper payment is involved.

beta_aquilae
12th Jul 2003, 11:27 AM
Yeah but blackmailing is not saying i love you, we need to see other people.

RaptoR
12th Jul 2003, 11:37 AM
They've basically conjured up a PR nightmare for themselves now, two days before the release of the mod. Way to go.

beta_aquilae
12th Jul 2003, 11:53 AM
they pretty much lost the main ppl that know bk and worked with him before and know what kinda person he is. From what i read on the forums, the planned it all from the beginning. Once the mod was at a certain point they kick him and they get the glory and if possible enter a contest for money.

Looks like the team wont work in this community anymore, ppl are already boycotting the mod. I rather have those ppl boycotting riaa instead of a mod, but hey whatever floats your boat.

Mychaeel
12th Jul 2003, 11:58 AM
Yeah but blackmailing is not saying i love you, we need to see other people.

Obviously there's no love left at all between the team and its leader.

But look what they actually "blackmailed" BadKarma with: with releasing "all information regarding the wrongdoings made by [BadKarma] to the public." That this "threat" is enough for BadKarma to do their bidding is interesting enough in its own right.

Sending a letter like that was probably the worst thing the team could have done in this situation, even if they had no love at all left for their team leader BadKarma. The fact that they didn't have the foresight to at least prepare a comprehensive team statement to present to their fan base doesn't help at all. Individual team members putting off inquiring fans with vague statements about "time zone problems" makes a poor substitute for that.

BadKarma obviously went through this whole project with the attitude that it was his alone, granting others merely the opportunity to pour their own hearts (to lend a phrase of BadKarma's) and working hours into it without any say in what happened to it. With nothing to lose except the public recognition the mod's release may have given them, the team was virtually cornered by any of BadKarma's decisions that they thought threatened the mod.

This whole situation is home-made by BadKarma himself.

They've basically conjured up a PR nightmare for themselves now, two days before the release of the mod.

...and they're not even handling it well. After working for months (years?) with BadKarma they should have been able to anticipate the course of events after facing him with such a situation.

Mychaeel
12th Jul 2003, 12:00 PM
From what i read on the forums, the planned it all from the beginning. Once the mod was at a certain point they kick him and they get the glory and if possible enter a contest for money.

Not that I believe a word of this (do you? why? who made that statement, to start with?), but it's symptomatic of the "PR nightmare" the Troopers team have navigated themselves into.

BlAcK_PlAgUe22
12th Jul 2003, 12:09 PM
Something just doesn't add up here.

If 11 people feel so strongly that BK is a bad leader, and that his behaviour is unconstructive, maybe they have a point.

I've witnessed the follwing behaviour regarding his non-troopers work from him on public forums/his website before:

" emotional outbursts resultant in discomfort and production slowdown amongst the team members; defensive attitude and inability to receive active and progressive criticism from [team members]."

Before y'all go getting rowdy, you might want to peek over the other side of the fence, and listen to what the other guys have to say.

Who cares?

There are better ways to tell him he's a bad leader then "**** off, we're taking over the mod" :(

Mychaeel
12th Jul 2003, 12:20 PM
There are better ways to tell him he's a bad leader then "**** off, we're taking over the mod" :(

What if they tried, and BadKarma wasn't perceptive to any of them?

RaptoR
12th Jul 2003, 12:46 PM
The only way they can approach breaking themselves out of this rut is by releasing a quality mod on Monday. If Troopers appears and it sucks, then they'll be screwed.

tool
12th Jul 2003, 01:17 PM
the other thing to keep in mind is that this team signed on under there own free will to do this for free. If they had a problem with it they could have just left the team at anytime and BadKarma would have found someone else. If the whole team had just decided to leave instead of stealing the mod from BadKarma then BadKarma most likely would have came out looking bad.

and by the way, I suppose Beyondunreal.com wont be mirroring or supporting this mod in anyway for now on?

Mychaeel
12th Jul 2003, 01:30 PM
and by the way, I suppose Beyondunreal.com wont be mirroring or supporting this mod in anyway for now on?

Why on earth should BeyondUnreal take sides in a mod's internal squabbles, let alone by a petty gesture like not mirroring the mod's files?

hal
12th Jul 2003, 01:32 PM
We'll be reporting news on it just like we would any other mod.

Gundato
12th Jul 2003, 06:22 PM
i don't know who to side with. on the one hand, bk must have done something to deserve this. on the other hand, the team seems to be a bunch of jackasses to handle things that way.

either way, making a big deal out of this and trying to ruin the mod was very childish of BK.

and i am glad that BU is not taking any sides in this.

beta_aquilae
12th Jul 2003, 07:53 PM
i read the the whole posts of the "she said he said stuff" this morning on jpf. and from what i read, and what bk said, they had to the 14th to finish the mod for epic contest, and enter it by the 15th cause that was the end date. Plus ghost enigma wasnt doing a very good job of making the team look good with the stupid answers.

Mychaeel
13th Jul 2003, 02:11 AM
and from what i read, and what bk said, they had to the 14th to finish the mod for epic contest, and enter it by the 15th cause that was the end date.

They could easily have waited for the deadline of phase 2 (October) or even phase 3 (early next year) of the contest.

Balton
13th Jul 2003, 09:30 AM
I wasn't puzzled seeing bad karma's fanboy forum mob to walz trough any forum. how can such a bad mapper gain so much fans? clan fags?

Evil_Cope
13th Jul 2003, 09:39 AM
am i wrong in assuming that badkarma's statement implies that they will be taking all of badkarma's imput out of the mod? all of his creations/whatever?

then surely, you cant complain about him being treated unfairly, because if they remove all of his work, then they have inface, simply all left the team. there is nothing stopping bad-karma from finishing "his" mod.

surely what the "former team members" do with their own work is their own perogative?

;)

[IsP]KaRnAgE
13th Jul 2003, 10:04 AM
That's kinda what I thought. Also, BK kept bringing up "3 years of work" yet they seemed to remove "all of his work" easily. Removing his work didn't even delay the mod. :/

Gundato
13th Jul 2003, 12:52 PM
the way i interpreted it it osunded like they wanted him to send them everything he made.

Alhanalem
13th Jul 2003, 01:34 PM
The only thing BK might have done wrong here was be so posessive over the mod that legal crap and formal letters and such would get involved. The "I'm the leader, and youre just a bunch of peons" approach is not a good one.

I personally place little value on intellectual "property" so I am usually able to avoid these kinds of situations.

BlAcK_PlAgUe22
13th Jul 2003, 01:34 PM
KaRnAgE']That's kinda what I thought. Also, BK kept bringing up "3 years of work" yet they seemed to remove "all of his work" easily. Removing his work didn't even delay the mod. :/

Yeah, cause BK is a mapper.

Captain Kewl
13th Jul 2003, 01:51 PM
I wasn't puzzled seeing bad karma's fanboy forum mob to walz trough any forum. how can such a bad mapper gain so much fans? clan fags?

Do not underestimate the power of the dork side.

[IsP]KaRnAgE
13th Jul 2003, 04:33 PM
Yeah, cause BK is a mapper.


They said his work wasn't ready yet and wasn't planned to make the demo, but he wanted them to delay it so that he could finish. How could he have been project lead for 3 years on a subject that is practically done and supposedly only contribute a few unfinished maps and a tie fighter? If he was occupied with other things (I heard he was sick) then fine, but it shouldn't seem to be such a big surprise that the team feels they could do better without him and the problems he allegedly was creating. Not that it really matters because it is no one's business but the team. All I know is that if an entire team is pissed with the lead, and is united in making some sort of stance, then that has to mean something.

Either way, I'm not going to let their team problems stop me from downloading and enjoying the mod. I refuse to believe either side are saints or devils in this matter.

BlAcK_PlAgUe22
13th Jul 2003, 04:55 PM
Yeah, BK was going to leave the team due to health reasons.

Like you said, when 11 people agree you suck as leader, there might be something wrong. Then again, making him sign over everything he's ever worked for wasn't the best thing to do either.

[IsP]KaRnAgE
13th Jul 2003, 05:15 PM
Yeah, no saints in this story :hmm: :(

Zeltaxin
14th Jul 2003, 02:03 PM
If Karma wanted to he could take legal action against the members of the "team". That letter was a blatant attempt at blackmail, which is against the law. He could likely threaten legal action and force them all off of the team. Despite whatever bad leadership Karma may or may not have shown, that letter is unexcusable! If you have a bad leader you either leave or speak to him about it, you don't attempt to blackmail him out of everything he's worked so hard for.
I don't know if Karma was a bad leader, but it doesn't matter. It was a free mod that the team was under no obligation to work on, they are completely in the wrong with that letter. It is extremely stupid and insulting, and I hope Karma takes legal action against them, at least to get them banned from using any material relating to the Troopers mod.
Just keep in mind, everyone, that blackmail is illegal and if the members of the team had a problem they should have left or spoken to Karma. So despite a possible lack of leadership by Karma (note possible) it is completely, and unexcusably, wrong what the team members did.

tool
14th Jul 2003, 02:50 PM
blah they all suck and I wish BK and the team that hates him so much would both just shut up already and stop getting everyone else involved. For those that have been looking at the offical troopers forum there is a great deal of BK whipping out his penis to show how right he is. good god, just let it go already, no one else needs to know about this crap. :rolleyes:

Captain Kewl
14th Jul 2003, 03:06 PM
But what about the DRAMA?????

tool
14th Jul 2003, 03:20 PM
the drama is about as good as anything MTV shows. :p

Mychaeel
14th Jul 2003, 03:37 PM
blah they all suck and I wish BK and the team that hates him so much would both just shut up already and stop getting everyone else involved.

To be fair, the team did their best (which wasn't necessarily good, but nonetheless) to stop this charade or even not to let it start to begin with.

BadKarma, however, did as he usually does in a situation like this and tried to rally the general public to his cause and even succeeded to a degree, which is partly to blame on the team's poor crisis management.

jb
14th Jul 2003, 05:20 PM
BadKarma, however, did as he usually does in a situation like this and tried to rally the general public to his cause and even succeeded to a degree, which is partly to blame on the team's poor crisis management.

However crissis management for this type of issues is not easy :(

Recoil812
14th Jul 2003, 05:23 PM
I'm on the teams side on this one.

If they want to, they can kick a team member out. In this case the slacker happened to be BK so they all kicked themselves out, taking all their own work with them. I fail to see where any stealing comes into play.

We all love to root for the poor sap that got shafted but c'mon, boycotting their mod over this? WHY?

TheBladeRoden
14th Jul 2003, 11:55 PM
I don't know who's side to take on this. So like the snake that I am, I'm just going to take the path that will benefit me the most. And that includes downloading it.