Building a comp! Need help!

[DENSRAW]

Hey guys. It's that time to buy a new computer, and I've decided to build one myself. Here's what I've got so far:

Hardware:

Case: Thermaltake Xaser III (black): $160
MB: Asus A7N8X Deluxe: $130
Processor: Athlon XP 2800+: $174
Ram: 1gig of PC3200 Corsair Memory (not XMS): $187
Video: MSI Geforce FX 5900: $419
Drive 1: Samsung 16x DVD-Rom: $40
Drive 2: Sony DVD+R/RW: $250
Floppy: Sony Generic: $14
PSU: Antec 430W: $83
HD: Maxtor 120GB 7200RPM ATA133: $105
Speakers: Creative Labs Inspire 5.1: $73
Thermal Grease: Cooler Master Generic: $6
CPU Cooler: Vantec Aeroflow 7040: $28
RAM Heatsinks: Thermaltake Heatspreaders: $12
Cable 1: Floppy Round Cable, 18 inch: $9
Cable 2: 3 Connector Round Cable, 24 inch: $11
Cable 3: 2 Connector Round Cable, 18 inch: $10
Case Light: Thermaltake Red Voice Controlled: $11
Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Multimedia: $26

Software:

OS: Windows XP Professional: $143
Apps: Microsft Works Suite: $70
Games: UT2K3: $31 :)

All for a grand total of $1990 minus shipping. I'm going to use onboard sound (unless I shouldn't), my current monitor and my current mouse. Are the any suggestions you guys can make? Am I missing anything? Are any of the parts I selected crappy, and if so, could you recommend better ones?

PS: All prices are from www.newegg.com

[Rostam]

In my personal opinion you are going for an overkill.
You could safe a lot of money by getting a cheaper video card and cpu, I doubt you would even notice the performance drop. But let the real (cough*fanboys*cough) experts explain how stuff really work.

[Spier]

Yeah, the 5900 is a bit overkill, I would have gotten either a cheaper GeForce or a Radeon of some sorts. And maybe gone for a +2700 instead.

Other than that, I don't really see the point of having two DVD drives, I rarely use my nr.2. Windows XP Pro isn't essential, I would rather "acquire" it, or just get Home edition. And I am not sure how useful a 5.1 sound setup will be with an on-board soundcard.. 1gb of RAM is also a bit more than you need, unless you do other things than gaming.

[DENSRAW]

Yeah, the video card is still up in the air. I was originally planning on getting the 5900 Ultra! But, oh well....

I want the two DVD drives just so I can uh... duplicate CDs that I, myself, have uhh... legitimately purchased for backup purposes, of course.

Everyone I've spoken to said to get XP Pro, just because it doesn't have a bunch of crappy features that Home does. Also, if I "acquire" it, I don't think I'll be able to get the service packs or whatever.

About the soundcard, after I posted, I decided to get a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card, because I read some things that I didn't like about onboard sound.

RAM is another thing I'm not sure of. I can stick with gig I have or I can drop down to 512 and get the XMS RAM, but from what I hear, you can never have enough RAM.

[masamax]

I seriously doubt you need more then 512 for most applications, unless you plan to do some high quality video editing.

[DeMachina]

You won't have any problem installing the service pack if you "acquire" win2000 (even if XP has some nice - but mostly useless and not worth the price they're asking for - feature).

You don't really need a second CD/DVD drive to duplicate, although it does speed up the process... And you should definitelly get a real soundcard. I can see the limit of my OnBoard one and I would buy another if I had the money for it. As for the RAM, you won't have much use for it ATM, but you'll need more then 512 MB soon enough. You probably won't need it for a few months though...

Oh, do you really like UT2k3's gameplay? Because if you're buying it for mods, I'd wait for UT2k4 to be released in a few months (wich include all of UT2k3's content).

[BobTheFearlessFish]

dont bother with pc2300 ram (if thats the 400mhz ram or whatever it is) pc2700 is dirt cheap and just as good unless you have one of the barton processors. also if you are going to spend 160 on a case surely you can afford some sort of sound card.
i dont know too much about cooling. but ive heard that the thermaltake volcano 9 is about the best you can get.

[DENSRAW]

Yeah, I am getting a Barton processor, so I'm still going to purchase the PC3200 RAM, and, as I stated in a previous post, I'm going to get the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard.

I'm also going to axe UT2K3 and just wait for the 2K4, so can anyone else recommend a good game that will push my system?

[TheShiningWizard]

Morrowind.

[Puppeteer (Ghepetto)]

About the case. It probably has a window (Since I see you're purchasing a case light) and those are cool for about 2 weeks. You might save some dough there. Maybe a case that comes with a power supply? I also don't think you absolutely *need* so many watts, unless you have all the PCI slots taken, all usb slots taken, and running 30000000 programs, with 12 fans in your case and a coffee machine mod with a talking Furby inside.

Also, the video card? I hear the FX series aren't very useful as of now since there are no DirectX 9 programs out there. It might be a good idea to get a GeForce4 Ti4200 or 4600 (You will save up to about $250). You will be able to run games in their high settings (with the 4600 anyways) with little or no FPS loss. Then you can wait until the FX card prices drop (probably fast, since newer cards are being manufactured montly) It never hurts to wait if you are not sure. ;)

Have fun. Hope they don't send you a defective power supply like me :).

[Thrash123]

If money is an issue (which I'm guessing it ISN'T from looking at the specs..) I'd say go with an Allied power supply. Half the price of Antecs, but just as good from what I hear.

Also, I don't recommend 24" cables. IDE cables (My understanding) are not rated for longer than 18", and it's possible you will experience problems with them.

[DeMachina]

I don't see the point in buying a directx8 card when there will be directx9 game by the end of the year. And since there won't be a new directx for a long while (so said MS), he might aswell not buy an already outdated videocard seeing as he clearly have the money for it.

[ragingsamster]

Densraw, I just bought nearly the same setup you are proposing... the 2800 will do 400FSB no problem - the Corsair mem will help it. with a 400Mhz FSB your 2800 will be identified as a 3200+.

I would look at the reviews, concerning the video cards, the 9800 and the 5900 are kinda neck and neck - ATI is my fav - seen some pretty good benchmarks in an article at HardOCP that puts it ahead. I got the AIW9700pro and it's a fantastic card - surfing channels and web simultaneously

It's kind of hard to pick the right CPU heatsink with all the choices out there, I got the Thermalrite SLK800U, with the Asus mobo you need to be a little concerned with the heatsink's footprint as there are some tall electrolitic capacitors near the CPU socket. I had to bend one of the caps to get mine to fit.

Since I put it on my desk, I had to think quiet so I went with an Antec case, the Zalman ZM-F1 80mm fan for the CPU and the ZM80A-HP heatsink for the video card.... here's the finished product... well not quite, the wires need some tubing and general cleanup.

http://ragingsamster.home.comcast.net/newrig.JPG

[Saladin]

hrm, i wonder if that ati will replace my dish network reciver.... so, hows the videocard heatsink going, im thinking of getting a new one, any more/less heat?

[DENSRAW]

RS: Something Awful had a thread about CPU cooling fans and 3-4 people recommended the Aeroflow and I think a little more mentioned the Thermalrite fan you have, but they did say that it was huge, and since their cooling properties are comparable, I decided to play it safe.

Also, from what I read over at sharkyextreme.com, the ASUS board is pretty much the only nforce-2 board that has mounting holes for CPU fans, so I guess that mean it has some room around the CPU, but again, I just want to play it safe.

Puppeteer: I hear you. I could see how a case light could be annoying after a while. I'm changing the case to a Xaser III without a side window, and it comes with a PSU. That leads to my next question:

Has anyone heard bad things about Thermaltake's PSUs? The reviews are all good, but I want some first hand opinions.

Thrash: In a review I read, the guy needed to use a 24 inch cable to connect his two hard drives to his MB because the Xaser III case is huge, and it has an unorthodox way of mounting the hard drives. They go in sideways. I can't really describe it. You'd have to find a pic. I figured since I only had one hard drive, an 18 incher would be ok, bue I'd need a 24 incher for the two DVD drives. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if I need one because the DVD drives are mounted normally. Hmm... If you can verify that 24 inch cables are bad, then that would be great, but otherwise, i'm going to have to go with "better safe than sorry."

And what is all this DirectX talk up in dis piece? Someone explain please. Also, are than any cards that support DX9?

[Thrash123]

http://dansdata.com/rcables.htm


Essentially, data loss is possible with cable lengths beyond the 18 inch spec. It doesn't always happen, but I have known people who have experienced those problems before. You might be ok if you just run the 24 incher to the plain DVD drive, however.

*edit* DirectX9 optimizations will be in Doom 3, which means good chances for better performance and better graphics if you have a DirectX 9 spec card. If you can afford it, definately go with the card you have listed now - it'll be better in the long run once DirectX 9 games come out.

[DENSRAW]

Damn that sucks. Would is be alright if i gave each drive it's own 18 inch cable?

Also, if I'm not too busy later tonight, I'll probably post what my revised comp looks like.

[Thrash123]

How are you going to do that? Your mobo only has 2 IDE channels :)

My suggestion: Mount the DVD drives as close to the HD as possible. Put the HD as Primary master, the DVD drive as primary slave, and then put the DVD burner on secondary master with 18" cables. If there won't be enough cable length, put the DVD player drive on secondary master with a 24" cable, to minimize coaster-manufacturing. However, you may encounter issues when burning from the HD with both the burner and the HD being on the same IDE channel.

I can't wait until we get Serial ATA as a standard. It's going to fix all these issues - IIRC, you can have 25 devices on a single SATA cable, and cable lengths can go as high as a meter IIRC (Or was it 5 meters? I don't know why, but 5 is sticking in my head right now).

[DENSRAW]

This may be going into the rediculous, but what if I get a SATA hard drive? If I can find the money for it? Could I use two separate cables for the DVD drives then?

[(SDS)benmcl]

How are you going to do that? Your mobo only has 2 IDE channels

He could always get a IDE card although if the configuration of everything is the way I think it is it may be even a longer reach. Currently I have 6 hard drives 1 burner and 1 DVD. No problems. Actually I wish I could put another card in but no more room. :(

BTW 5 hard drives are running on their own power supply.

[Dank]

Man oh man, all this technical geek crap makes me glad I'm a Mac user.

http://a1344.g.akamai.net/7/1344/51/900c203718ebc8/www.apple.com/powermac/images/designclutter06232003.jpg

That's how the inside of a case SHOULD look. And yes, everything is hooked up. Best case design EVER!! (http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html) Talk about cooling. :D

Get a G5, dens. For how much you're spending you could get a low-end G5 and cheap non-apple display.

Sorry, I had to. :D

[OICW]

If he wanted a Mac, he wouldn't be building a PC now, would he?

Anyway, nice specs Dens, how many fans does your case have? In my (uninformed) opinion, it wouldn't hurt to get at least one extra fan for cooling, especially if you want to upgrade in the future.

[DENSRAW]

Haha. My case comes with seven fans, dude!

EDIT: I love you Dank.

[spm1138]

My NForce board has 5.1 onboard sound, so it's quite possible the NForce2 you are going for has a pretty spiffy onboard sound system (probably plenty good enough for gaming). Give it a listen before you shell out extra.

I'd go for the gig of RAM. Actually, I'd probably go for a gig and a half if I was building a system now.

If you have money to burn you could go for a RAID card and a pair of hard disks.

[TheShiningWizard]

Definitely give the onboard nForce sound a listen before you buy something extra. I believe that it uses the same system as the Xbox; which is known for having fantastic sound.

[Crowze]

The onboard sound is definitely better than the TBSC. It's comparable to an Audigy in terms of sound quality.

You won't be needing the memory heat spreaders - chances are the RAM either comes with them already or you just don't need them. Plus, if it's double-sided RAM then they're pretty useless.

My ThermalTake 420W PSU has been going for ages, no problems at all, and I'd definitely reccommend getting one.

The FX5900 looks like a good card, but seriously overpriced. I'd go for a Radeon 9700pro/9800, or maybe a GF4 4800.

[ragingsamster]

Nforce onboard audio :tup: I'm running my cambridge 4100 system through it and it sounds awesome. Dual NICs :tup: I can have a presence on my main outbound router and my wireless router at the same time. Linux doesn't seem to recognize the nforce NIC though. I've heard other boards can OC further, but mine is stable lightly OC'd and I'm hoping that the 9700pro will handle DoomIII OK.

[DENSRAW]

Ok, so now I'm going back to onboard sound. But now I have another question. Does the Asus A7N8X Deluxe come with a built in SATA port or is it an add-on PCI card? Also, I heard that for some mobos, using the SATA port deletes the IDE port. Is that true for this board?

In other news, I'm switching to an 128MB ATI Radeon 9800 Pro.

[DENSRAW]

I just want to say thanks to all the guys helping me out there. Your help is appreciated.

So here are the updated specs. I went back to the case with window and without a power supply for many reason, one of which being that the case that didn't have a window came with a PSU that did not have PFC or a SATA power connector. The connector isn't that big of an issue, but I think the lack of PFC was big enough to warrant it.

I now have a 9800 Pro instead of the 5900, and I switched RAMs from regular to XMS. I also switched to a SATA hard drive, and I added Norton Systemworks to the software.

Hardware:

Case: Thermaltake Xaser III (black): $160
MB: Asus A7N8X Deluxe: $130
Processor: Athlon XP 2800+: $174
Ram: 1gig of PC3200 Corsair XMS RAM: $292
Video: ATI Sapphire 9800 Pro: $375
Drive 1: Samsung 16x DVD-Rom: $40
Drive 2: Sony DVD+R/RW: $250
Floppy: Sony Generic: $14
PSU: Thermaltake 480W: $84
HD: Seagate 120GB SATA: $131
Speakers: Creative Labs Inspire 5.1: $73
Thermal Grease: Cooler Master Generic: $6
CPU Cooler: Vantec Aeroflow 7040: $28
Cable 1: Floppy Round Cable, 18 inch: $9
Cable 2: 2 Connector Round Cable, 18 inch: $10
Cable 3: 2 Connector Round Cable, 18 inch: $10
Cable 4: 24 inch SATA: $6
Case Light: Thermaltake Red Voice Controlled: $11
Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Multimedia: $26

Software:

OS: Windows XP Professional: $143
Apps: Microsft Works Suite: $70
Apps: Norton Systemworks: $23
Games: Battlefield 1942: $44

Total Price: $2102

RS: Do you know if that VGA cooler you have will work on the 9800 Pro? I don't see why it shouldn't, but I just want to be sure, and their site doesn't say anything about compatability.

[spm1138]

I have had a couple of bad experiences with Norton products recently (not the least of which was a virus getting past NAV).

I'd go for different products (not Symantec either. Symantec own Norton) if I were you.

edit:
According to this, it looks a lot like the board has SATA -
http://www.ocworkbench.com/2002/asus/a7n8x/a7n8xgallery1.htm

[OICW]

Dens- personally, I'd bite the bullet and get the 9800 Pro (IIRC, that's the 256 meg version), since that extra texture memory will be very useful for games next year.

[DENSRAW]

Both the 128MB and 256MB fall under 9800 Pro. I think I'll get the 128MB for now since it's about 150 dollars less, and if all goes as planned, I'll be able to upgrade this thing this time next year.

[Puppeteer (Ghepetto)]

OR, you could go to Circuit City (they have the return policy with no questions asked) and buy a Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB. Meanwhile, you order the 128MB version from NewEgg. When you have both cards in hand, switch the barcodes (Since both cards are pretty much IDENTICLE) and return the 128 version you purchased from NewEgg. Instant cash for more games :p.

[spm1138]

AKA theft

[BobTheFearlessFish]

AKA a pretty cool idea if the 256 meg version didnt use slower memory.

[ragingsamster]

The mobo has two sata connectors built in... I need to find the jumper on the mobo to disable them, it slows boot up when enabled without drives attached.
as for the cooler heres the scoop from Zalman:

Thank you for your interest in ZM80A-HP.

ZM80A-HP is compatible with ATI (All In Wonder) Radeon 9500, 9600, 9700, 9800 (Pro). Especially, additional fan cooling ('FB165' only or adding a fan to the BR123 bracket of 'FB123') is needed for more stability of R9800 Pro only.

Combination of the upcoming ZM80C-HP and the ZM-OP1 (option fan for ZM80C-HP) is highly recommended for cooling the ATI (AIW) Radeon 9800 Pro.

Following our recommendations does not relate to the job of overclocking the clock frequencies of the processing units with additional fan cooling.

Regards,
Jinkook Kim/ZALMAN

I believe thermaltake has a more snazzy cooler:
http://www.thermaltake.com/products/chipset/heatpipe.htm

That is an awesome looking cooler. If I would have known about it I would have gotten that.