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View Full Version : Ut2004 Thumbs Up Or Thumbs Down???


BigFolks
29th Jun 2003, 12:59 AM
Hey, It's been a while. I got into that WarCraft III mood again and decided to stop ut2k3 for a while. Well, I'M BACK!

I've heard some good news about ut2k4 and in my opinion, I just think ut2k3 should be UPGRADED rather than abandoned by releasing a whole 'nother game. That's just what I think. It's their way of saying, "Screw you, buy another game, make us rich and happy." Well, i'm saying, "please dont screw me over! I'm not rich! can't you see? ah well screw you too. Take that game and shove it somewhere up something stinky."

Seems like i'm forced into buying ut2k4. I really wanted some good features and it seems like the 2 good features it shows are the microphone chat modes and the TV mode w/e that is...

So, what do you think? THUMBS UP, or THUMBS DOWN????

Sorry i came back in such a bad mood. :P alls ok.

Swedix
29th Jun 2003, 04:47 AM
You can actually see UT2004 as a 'huge' upgrade for UT2003.
UT2004 is supposed to be 100% backcompatible with Ut2003, which mean that owners of UT2k4 can play on UT2k3 servers.

And hopefully, the owners of UT2k3 will have some sort of rebate when (if) buying UT2k4.

Sparky
29th Jun 2003, 06:42 AM
Is it gonna be a hit? Well, it's a little early to start driving down that road. My thoughts on 2k4 still stand. I won't be purchasing it, that is unless the demo's been released first and I enjoy it... I'm gonna be smart this time around, unlike with 2k3 (and not just get sucked in by the nice graphics).

Original9
29th Jun 2003, 07:01 AM
It sucks because I saw a 2 minute video that was released 5 months before the game will actually release.
























Think about it. ;)

BigFolks
29th Jun 2003, 08:10 AM
I'm looking at unreal 2004 and saying, there's nothing but upgrades. When you compare ut2k4 to ut2k3, you see little difference in graphics. It' all seems the same. I think the biggest successes of it will be the microphone, then the TV ability. But maybe you're right, maybe it IS too soon to tell.

shadow_dragon
29th Jun 2003, 11:06 AM
Lol! Because a 2gb download is prefferable to EVERYONE!

Get over it!

Thrawn70
29th Jun 2003, 11:21 AM
Yeah, sorry BigFolks, you missed the heated debate time by a few months. Now we're all ready to wait and see how it looks before making judgement calls.

BigFolks
29th Jun 2003, 11:52 AM
ok just thought i'd start it up. Guess i shall end it

DeDpoet|BuF
30th Jun 2003, 02:05 PM
I think i might be one of ut2kx casualties. I'm doubtful that I'm gonna transition/upgrade to the next version. There'll probably be a significant drop off for ut2k3 servers - so playing that ver will be almost pointless.

but, you know what would win the love of the masses, would be a free upgrade for those who own ut2k3 as opposed to crappy rebate where you'll have to send in a copy of your original receipt and the UPC from the box - which I suspect hardly anyone would have saved. Plus I'm pretty pessimistic -> i'm expecting some $5 off a $60 title. yeah, thx alot.

But if they decided to release a free downloadable upgrade for 2k3 peeps, it'd probably extend the life of current players who wouldn't necessarily buy an entirely new product. New players would simply buy the ut2k4 version (retail ut2k3 would not be sold anymore). So they'd still have a marketable *new* product.

But that's coming from the cheap seats. My bias is that I'm probably not gonna pick up the expansion/upgrade/next-version for a whopping $50+. And I'm probably in the minority here, meaning that they're expecting everyone to simply go along and shovel money. oh well!

just my thoughts....

Draco 84
30th Jun 2003, 02:58 PM
Probably everyone here has played Halo right?? IMHO Halo would not be that great if it weren't for the vehicles. UT2K3 is fun but if it weren't for the modding capabilities I wouldn't have been as into as I am. Vehicles (methinks) will make this game what it was supposed to be in the first place.
And with new maps/models/gametypes...it should prove to be worth the 30-40 (maybe) bucks to pick it up.
But that's just little old me and my thoughts.

BigFolks
30th Jun 2003, 03:09 PM
I was never much into vehicles. It would be almost pointless to even think of them being in the game due to the fact that some of the maps are so small and rugged and tight. Jumping for the vehicle would be suicide. Just thinnk, you are way up in the sky, you see a car or a tank or w/e it is driving around. You can literally double jump from where you are standing and catch up to that mug and jump on the front and snipe their eyes out.

I dont want to die dishonorable death like that. I think people should rethink vehicles. They are only meant for those HUGE MAPS - and should go way faster than the people can run if you know what i mean. Small maps just make, what i previously said, suicide.

And vehicles aren't that exiting either. A 16 player map with what, 2 - 3 vehicles to choose from. I doubt anyone will pick them up unless they are noooooobs! in a 16 player shoot out, chances are the person getting the most kills is in the most populated vicinity running, jumping around, and killing whoever he/she sees. dont tell me i mispelled any words cuz i dont care. i'll set you on fire.

Orochi
30th Jun 2003, 03:45 PM
yuo misspelled exciting

vehicles will obviously only show up in bigass team maps

shadow_dragon
30th Jun 2003, 08:21 PM
Big FOlks! Everyone knows the vehicles only exist in ONE game type, they don't intrude upon DM,BR,CTF,DOM or even AS, unless ofcourse it is modded to do so, the onslaught maps, for which the vehicles are designed have allready been advertised as being huge maps for many players!

And for those that don't like vehicles, there are new player models, couple of new guns, tons of new maps, hud stuff and the promise of a better online experience as they have claimed that they've made the game use less bandwidth!

LOL@ Microphone chat and UTV being the only good stuff!

KJAX
30th Jun 2003, 08:27 PM
UT2004. Any upgrade is a good thing. Enough said.

BigFolks
2nd Jul 2003, 04:30 AM
Enough said :P

Radiosity
2nd Jul 2003, 06:30 AM
There will be vehicles in the Assault mode too remember. A team of fighters attacking a Skaarj mothership for example :D Whether that'll make the game or not I don't know, but if it doesn't I may just make a map like that myself :)

Doc_EDo
2nd Jul 2003, 12:08 PM
:tdown: :tdown:
If anything, I know one thing:
There aren't many ppl playing UT2k3 and with UT2k4 there will be much less ppl playing both of them. UT2k4 should have been an upgrade pack not a new game. :(

hal
2nd Jul 2003, 12:38 PM
I think i might be one of ut2kx casualties. I'm doubtful that I'm gonna transition/upgrade to the next version. There'll probably be a significant drop off for ut2k3 servers - so playing that ver will be almost pointless.

but, you know what would win the love of the masses, would be a free upgrade for those who own ut2k3 as opposed to crappy rebate where you'll have to send in a copy of your original receipt and the UPC from the box - which I suspect hardly anyone would have saved. Plus I'm pretty pessimistic -> i'm expecting some $5 off a $60 title. yeah, thx alot.

But if they decided to release a free downloadable upgrade for 2k3 peeps, it'd probably extend the life of current players who wouldn't necessarily buy an entirely new product. New players would simply buy the ut2k4 version (retail ut2k3 would not be sold anymore). So they'd still have a marketable *new* product.

But that's coming from the cheap seats. My bias is that I'm probably not gonna pick up the expansion/upgrade/next-version for a whopping $50+. And I'm probably in the minority here, meaning that they're expecting everyone to simply go along and shovel money. oh well!

just my thoughts....

I can see that you really haven't read that much about it. Or maybe you did, but from the wrong sources.

No one ever said ANYTHING about having to turn in your receipt or UPC from the box. The only thing ever mentioned that you MIGHT have to turn in was the actual cds. In fact, it was Tim Sweeney who said that it wouldn't be fair to expect people to still have a receipt or box for 2003.

We also don't know how much it's going to retail for. But I'm thinking if it somehow retails for as much as 39.99 (like UT2003 did) and that we get a 10 or 15.00 rebate... 24.99 to 29.99 isn't going to be such a bad thing. :)

There's loads of content (double UT2003 already), so it's not like you're getting a bad deal or anything.

Draco 84
2nd Jul 2003, 12:58 PM
All I have to say in response to hal is...
Boom-Shaka-Laka...
That's right...I said it.

A_Rimmerlister
2nd Jul 2003, 01:54 PM
I hope they'll think of the non-USA players when it comes to the rebate ...

And as for price : no one has said anything yet. It could be 'standard full-game' with hopefully a rebate that drops it to 'expansion pack'-level.

btw :
The PS2-game Virtua Fighter 4 Evo (or whatever it is called) retails for 'full price' even though it's a minor graphics upgrade compared to VF4 and to top it all off there's not even a rebate option ...

Or the various expansionpacks for other games that didn't add half the content that is added for UT'04 ?

Or what about the yearly MS Office 'upgrades' ... (which MS wants to force on companies & regular folks in a few years ... )

Or those infernal sports-series which merely change the names of the teams each year (and so little upgrades compared to the previous version they're not even worth mentioning) ?

So it could be worse ... much worse.

Cheaper/free would be great of course (I wouldn't complain), but I think it's unrealistic to expect such a thing from a commercial business.
Programminng patches & 'bonuspacks' costs money too ...

BigFolks
2nd Jul 2003, 03:52 PM
yuo misspelled exciting

and you misspelled you :P

Orochi
2nd Jul 2003, 07:43 PM
olololololololol!!!!!1

[MUTTS] Hiteche5
2nd Jul 2003, 07:54 PM
I personally like all the changes in UT2K3 and I think they will do a good job with 2004. The only concern that I have is that it will split the community up even more and we are not going to have the crowd we used to have.

A_Rimmerlister
3rd Jul 2003, 05:19 AM
Every new MP-game be it for console, macintosh, Linux or pc 'splits' the crowd already.
So whether it's UT'04, Half-life 2, War of the Galaxies, etc. ...
It will happen, it's going to happen and it has happened already.
The chance of any MP-game to ever reach the numbers of servers/players that CS has is next to zero.
That's life.

ShadowKi][er
3rd Jul 2003, 06:13 AM
I have mixed feelings about the yearly update. I wasn't exactly expecting something like this from Epic, but I don't feel that bitching about it will do anything. To be honest, it seems that the naysayers are acting like spoiled brats.

You expect Epic to support your little game for the next three years. Why do they owe you this? You payed 50 dollars for a product. You received that product, Epic didn't trick you into anything. Basically your 50 dollars help cover the costs that went into making UT2K3. That 50 dollars doesn't entitle Epic to create more content for you. You payed 50 dollars for what's in the box. Where does it say that Epic will continue to support your purchase? Would you prefer that Epic charge 15 dollars a month for the privilege of downloading patches and bonus packs? Developing them costs money as well and you're getting them for free.

Then you really expect Epic to release UT2K4 as a 'bonus pack'? Why should they? You bought the contents of UT2K3 with that 50 dollars, not the privilege of downloading additional content. We wouldn't be seeing this stupid complaining if Epic never treated its customers so well to begin with.

Honestly, Epic don't owe you anything. Not a single new map, model or gametype. Your money went towards three CDs and a manual. Nothing more, nothing less. In theory you shouldn't even expect free content...

They don't even owe you a rebate for UT2K4. It's not hard to understand.

PoweR'
3rd Jul 2003, 08:26 AM
:tdown: :tdown:
If anything, I know one thing:
There aren't many ppl playing UT2k3 and with UT2k4 there will be much less ppl playing both of them. UT2k4 should have been an upgrade pack not a new game. :(

Exactly...

People don't stop and think UT2004 is what UT2003 should have been to start with. They just released it early because so many people were complaining. Now it's just a marketing skeem. UT2004 has that "new" label attached to it. Now lots of people are going to run out and buy it. Maybe even people that stayed away from 2003, lol..ah well. What do I know? (not that much) :P

Renegade Retard
3rd Jul 2003, 09:01 AM
Exactly...

People don't stop and think UT2004 is what UT2003 should have been to start with. They just released it early because so many people were complaining.....

So, people complained that it took longer than expected to get the game they wanted, and when Epic did their best to get a product out the door to appease the impatient masses, people complained that it wasn't what they thought it would be.

Sort of the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality, don't you think?

Here's my thinking - before UT2003 came out, you must have been doing a lot of reading up of the game in anticipation of it coming out. How else would you know what was "supposed to" be in the game? So my question is, if you did so much preparation for the anticipated game, did you not read any reviews when if first came out before you bought it? I mean come on, you HAD to have known what was in the game before you spent you money on it. It seems senseless to me to spend that much effort to figure out what you thought should be in the game without seeing if your conclusions were put in the game before purchasing.

Seems to me that Epic/DE/Atari or whatever was working very hard to produce the game that was intended to be produced, the public got impatient, so the developers made a game that may not have included everything that was promised just to get the public to shut up. Yet the public complained that it wasn't what they thought it would be, and are complaining again about UT2004 because they think that it's what UT2003 should have been. This may be true, but the bottom line is that it's just as much the public's fault for being impatient as it was Epics. Epic has a very good history of trying to bend over backwards to make it's fanbase happy, but it has now become their undoing. Again, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Sorry. Regulars here know I rarely get involved in such things, but I felt like it was something I needed to say. I may be totally off base. What do I know anyhow, being a Retard and all. :)

PoweR'
3rd Jul 2003, 09:21 AM
Sort of the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality, don't you think?
That's life in general man, doesn't have to be just about UT but, yes, I agree with that :)

Here's my thinking - before UT2003 came out, you must have been doing a lot of reading up of the game in anticipation of it coming out. How else would you know what was "supposed to" be in the game? So my question is, if you did so much preparation for the anticipated game, did you not read any reviews when if first came out before you bought it? I mean come on, you HAD to have known what was in the game before you spent you money on it. It seems senseless to me to spend that much effort to figure out what you thought should be in the game without seeing if your conclusions were put in the game before purchasing.

Seems to me that Epic/DE/Atari or whatever was working very hard to produce the game that was intended to be produced, the public got impatient, so the developers made a game that may not have included everything that was promised just to get the public to shut up. Yet the public complained that it wasn't what they thought it would be, and are complaining again about UT2004 because they think that it's what UT2003 should have been. This may be true, but the bottom line is that it's just as much the public's fault for being impatient as it was Epics. Epic has a very good history of trying to bend over backwards to make it's fanbase happy, but it has now become their undoing. Again, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Honestly?, No, I didn't read many reviews about the game (UT2003) before I bought it. I just like UT99 so much, I figured what the hell. As I'm sure lots of people did. Which was stupid I know, but meh. I agree that it is just as much the publics fault but I have never complained about UT2003. Granted I don't think it's what was expected and will never have that certain something that UT99 has but what I should have made more clear is, after all the talk of UT2004 started, you just knew that this was there intention for UT2003 to begin with. The fact that there using UT2004 as a marketing skeem now, that's not a bad thing really, just good buisness. It might not have been there intent, but that's what is happening. After all, they're in this for the money or they wouldn't be doing any of this. Again, this is all just my opinion, and in the end it won't mean squat ;)

Renegade Retard
3rd Jul 2003, 09:33 AM
PoweR' -

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to attack you, nor anyone else for that matter.

I guess my bottom line is - did you (meaning the public) enjoy the game? If you did, then UT2003 was money well spent, and it would stand to reason that UT2004 wouold be just as good an investment for you. If you didn't enjoy UT2003, then you probably shouldn't purchase UT2004, at least until you read the reviews and find out if it's really what you want.

Thanks for the reply, PoweR'.

DeDpoet|BuF
3rd Jul 2003, 09:46 AM
I can see that you really haven't read that much about it. Or maybe you did, but from the wrong sources.

No one ever said ANYTHING about having to turn in your receipt or UPC from the box. The only thing ever mentioned that you MIGHT have to turn in was the actual cds. In fact, it was Tim Sweeney who said that it wouldn't be fair to expect people to still have a receipt or box for 2003.

We also don't know how much it's going to retail for. But I'm thinking if it somehow retails for as much as 39.99 (like UT2003 did) and that we get a 10 or 15.00 rebate... 24.99 to 29.99 isn't going to be such a bad thing. :)

There's loads of content (double UT2003 already), so it's not like you're getting a bad deal or anything.

I haven't read anything other than the ut2k4 faqs and press release. So I was mostly going off of standard business practice (interms of upgrade-rebates). And if the discount does bring the price down for me to expansion-pack grade price, I'd go for it. Thanks for restoring my faith. :)

Sir_Brizz
3rd Jul 2003, 07:37 PM
I agree that UT2004 is what UT2003 was supposed to be. But Renegade hit the nail on the head this time. It was all the previews, screenshots, et al. from UT2003 AND Unreal Championship that lent everyone to this idea. I have THOROUGHLY enjoyed UT2003. IMO the game is better than I could have expected it to be even having read the previews and all. Yes, I was disappointed when features like VoIP and working Vehicles were left out and I was bitter about it for a while....but looking back, I have gotten WELL over my $50 worth out of this game. In fact, I'm thinking of just buying UT2004 with or without the rebate.

I guess the point is....yes UT2004 is overdue in the new engine....but UT2003 was ahead of it's time in many ways as well...

BigFolks
4th Jul 2003, 04:33 AM
it's about time i hear something good about ut2003 instead of complaints. To tell you the truth, i was getting annoyed with all of the complaints. Think about it - complain complain complain and eventually somebody will rise up and start to think otherwise and greet ut2003 AND ut2k4 with the proper respect. Although some weapons in ut2k3 seem lame and rediculous, it's just another strat you'll have to master. :P it' makes gaming not so stupid! :D

Also - Ut2k3 was well worth my money as well :) I look forward to ut2k4. Thanks for the extra insight folks, i changed my mind in a heartbeat. :)

"Now if only i could find $50 of change in my OTHER couch!"

BigFolks
4th Jul 2003, 04:38 AM
I must emphasize to those of you that vote to my poll and don't send a message. Beware, all who give bad ratings must give a reason for their actions. Please tell us what you think so we can reason with you. if we can't, we'll just bash on you :P Don't be scared!

Radiosity
4th Jul 2003, 06:00 AM
When I first got 2003 I didn't like it much, simply because I'd been playing UT99 for ages at that point. The maps were too big, the weapons were different, there was no ripper, hated the LG, blah blah blah ;) Also, I had problems running it properly (due to a bad stick of RAM which once I removed it cleared the game and system problems I had at the time).

Then I started playing it more....and more.... and more :D Within about a week of solid playing I'd given UT99 up totally. I love this game now, it's seriously about the only game I play any more. And of course I can mod it in any way I want too which helps keep it alive longer.

So I've voted 2 thumbs up :tup: :tup: I'm looking forward to 2004 with anticipation :)

NVShacker
4th Jul 2003, 12:55 PM
Umm....
Why do people get all the UT2k3 content for free along with the new content when we have to pay extra for the content?
It should not be Standalone in my ever so humble but deadly accurate opinion.
:D

BulletProof
4th Jul 2003, 05:33 PM
Umm....
Why do people get all the UT2k3 content for free along with the new content when we have to pay extra for the content?
It should not be Standalone in my ever so humble but deadly accurate opinion.
:D

I agree, they should release it in two flavors (as a stand-alone and an expansion) but including UT2k3 content will help them bring in new players

SealClubber
4th Jul 2003, 10:50 PM
Im really on the borderline between liking it and not liking it...

It really depends on the new maps that they are gonna release, that is the key! :p

Hanover_Fist
5th Jul 2003, 11:50 AM
I think that 2k4 might be a hit if the new game types are alot like objective styled games.

I play some Enemy Territory off and on, and you don't need a leet box to be an effective participant.

If you've got to pull levers and destroy stuff while under the cover of your teammates you don't need a good connect either.

You can do that kinda stuff on a dialup.

One problem I can forsee is if leet players need to be transported in a vehicle to a target area to fight.

Imagine all those (P*S) guys sitting a cargo bay (like in Aliens) being transported by a guy on a 56K and he keeps flying into mountains killing them all, then they have to wait in the cue for 30 seconds to tap in again.

:lol:

sorry, the thought of that just cracks me up.

I'm the victim of an over active imagination

BigFolks
5th Jul 2003, 01:57 PM
I got on today about 12:50pm and checked out the new pictures for ut2k4. I must say i am not impressed. I must say sorry whoever you are, you need to get my attention not blow me off fools. Show some better pictures rather than a dude sitting there aiming at the screen beside a vehicle or some big huge building. And the picture of the tank!? dont even get me started about that. if you can ride in that i'm going to be so angry. I want to see people sitting down in the vehicles so you can snipe their heads as they drive by. God that would be so great. Like in halo. Only ut2k4 style. :D

Somebody please give me some more insight on this. I'm losing interest fast.............................

Sir_Brizz
5th Jul 2003, 08:21 PM
If you look at the pictures from earlier this year, there is a warthog like jeep thing you can drive. I'm sure it's open aired so you can kill people without destroying the car. I really like the new ones! UT2k4 should be great.

TWD
5th Jul 2003, 08:54 PM
I see a lot of people saying they think it will split people up etc.

I like UT2k3 a lot. I'm more into 2k3 than I ever was with ut. In fact ut2k3 is about the only game that I play. There are a lot more people out there like that. The people that actually like ut2k3. I can garuntee you that we will all buy ut2004 when it comes out probably even without a rebate. Now there's some other people that bought ut2003 and were disappointed or didn't really like it and don't play it that much. Those are the people that won't be buying ut2003 hence "splitting the community".

I think this is a good thing. If your not going to spend the money on 2004 your not really the kind of player I want to be playing with anyways.

People will still play ut2003 and that will split the community but those people that stick to 2003 don't really contribute much nor matter that much to the community anyways. We can easily do without them.

Doc_EDo
5th Jul 2003, 09:29 PM
TWD you're wrong.
Call me crazy, but I dont like paying for something I already have (i.e. ut2003). I'd like to pay only for the part I DON'T have. I'm a strange person, aren't I? :rolleyes:
Let's see if you think the same when ut2005 comes out...Will you buy 2005, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10?
I'd like to spend my money on something I dont have already, and that will be HL2.

Sir_Brizz
5th Jul 2003, 10:33 PM
I'll buy 2004 because it is the game I wished UT2003 would have been. If they go to the yearly releases after that then I will be more picky about it.

[MUTTS] Hiteche5
6th Jul 2003, 12:57 AM
I'm one of those people that said that. But allow me to explain myself. From the press realeases they said that 2004 would be a standalone product but those peeps could play on 2003 servers...just not vice versa. Also the press releases said that it would have more textures and graphics...well some people can barely run UT2K3...what makes you think they can push 2004? It wil split up the players. Now you look at that as a good thing but I don't. Communities make the online game. I want servers in UT like they have in CS...lotsa peeps and lots of servers with low pings! Right now...even on cable it is difficult to find a low ping server near me. That sucks! I love UT2K3 and I have a hard time playing now...what happens when the servers split?

TWD
6th Jul 2003, 01:06 AM
I don't care about how much it costs or if I'm paying for something I already have. True it is unfair if I have to pay full price, but it doesn't matter to me as long as I get to play the game. I absolutely love this game and I'm sticking with it.

hal
6th Jul 2003, 02:08 AM
Well, gosh. Ever since the name was changed from UT2 to UT2003, Epic has been forthright in explaining (often and publicly) that they would do updates whenever they felt they had enough new content to warrant one.

We got two free bonus packs, didn't we?

Epic stood behind the product and took suggestions on it to bring it to its current (much, much improved) patched state. I'd agree that if they had used feedback from the demo (which was released entirely too close to the retail date IMHO) then the reviews would have been better (not that they were even that bad, really) and the Unreal-playing public would have given it a warmer reception than they did.

I think a lot of stuff that they've changed since the release were things that they genuinely did not know (or feel) mattered. They joked about a lot of stuff, like Cliffy saying that Epic's next game "would be just an endless series of options", which leads me to believe that they underestimated the importance of all the little things they had done right with UT.

Now, I'd disagree with the fact that the game was released under pressure from the online community. The people voicing their opinions are a minority representation of the people who actually buy the game. It simply doesn't make enough sense to think that they'd bow to the "pressure" of a few whiny individuals in a couple of gaming forums. They either believed the game was ready for release or were under some sort of financial or publisher pressure. (all my opinion of course)

UT2003 is an underappreciated game (especially as it is now). There are a lot of very, very good things in there. I think that UT2004 may give people a second chance to see the game, play it, and get hooked.

PainAmplifier
6th Jul 2003, 05:06 AM
We got two free bonus packs, didn't we?

No Hal we did not get two free bonus packs. What we did get was Two service packs and a couple of half-baked mods.

While we did get a fair number of extra maps, this barely makes up for the severe lack of decent maps that came with the game. And most of those maps barely reach average quality...

We also got a couple of new adrenaline combo's which almost no-one uses anyway. (Booster/Invis/Speed are the only ones people bother to use for reasons which should be obvious.) So the new Pint/Camo combo's are essentially window dressing.

And finally we got Mutant and Invasion. Mutant comes across as a 'eh' mutator and Invasion was released in an unfinished state, and is still horribly unbalanced without using other mods in conjunction with it.

In short we barely reached the level that the game *should* have been at at it's time of release. And I still think that UT is still a more enjoyable game. UT2k3 obviously has better graphics, and yet much of the gameplay feels weak compared to UT. Yes, they are different games, and yet after playing UT2k3 for months it doesn't seem to get much better. It just isn't the "must play" game that UT was, and feels more like one of those bargain bin games...which is where UT2k4 will probably be before I bother picking it up. If at all, since UT2k3 isn't making that great of a lasting of an impression on me.

Doc_EDo
6th Jul 2003, 07:30 AM
I still can't get used to "quaked" weapons... I miss Enforcer. And the minigun used to be such a nice weapon, now it's crap. :(

Hunter
6th Jul 2003, 09:01 AM
going to be great, with the new stuff they are bringing in and with the maybe of the rebate option for ut2003 owners

BigFolks
6th Jul 2003, 02:49 PM
PainAmplifier, I don't mean to pick on you but you make ut2k3 and ut2k4 sound soooooo bad. i must point out something extremely important that i think shouldn't be skipped.

Although the Assault mod was released for ut2k3, it is very hard for it to become popular due to the fact that some people JUST DO NOT DOWNLOAD MODS! For example: ME!!! I HATE FAN MADE MODS! Anyways. The assualt for ut2004 is a big "extra". Perhaps it may be the only reason i am going to buy it. Assault made me so happy in ut. And all may have heard that about 5000 times. Ah well screw you whoever you are i'm sick of you spending countless hours complaining about ut2003 with no assault. W/e i'm making no sense. Does anybody know what i'm trying to say?

PainAmplifier
6th Jul 2003, 04:54 PM
PainAmplifier, I don't mean to pick on you but you make ut2k3 and ut2k4 sound soooooo bad. i must point out something extremely important that i think shouldn't be skipped.

Although the Assault mod was released for ut2k3, it is very hard for it to become popular due to the fact that some people JUST DO NOT DOWNLOAD MODS! For example: ME!!! I HATE FAN MADE MODS! Anyways. The assualt for ut2004 is a big "extra". Perhaps it may be the only reason i am going to buy it. Assault made me so happy in ut. And all may have heard that about 5000 times. Ah well screw you whoever you are i'm sick of you spending countless hours complaining about ut2003 with no assault. W/e i'm making no sense. Does anybody know what i'm trying to say?

Actually, I'm trying not to sound like UT2k3 is *that* bad. Problem is that I find gameplay in UT2k3 *soooooo* mediocre and underwhelming that even half the enthusiasm I had for UT just isn't there.

And I *have* downloaded the user made assualt MOD...and if the 'official' assualt is anything even remotely near the MOD one, you may as well give up now, as the weapon 'balance' (I *still* have problems calling UT2k3's weapons balanced...) makes Assualt a not-fun gametype.

Doc_EDo
6th Jul 2003, 05:16 PM
...And I *have* downloaded the user made assualt MOD...and if the 'official' assualt is anything even remotely near the MOD one, you may as well give up now, as the weapon 'balance' (I *still* have problems calling UT2k3's weapons balanced...) makes Assualt a not-fun gametype.
Well, the weapons aren't THAT screwd up.

I needed the modding experience. :p I learned a lot.
Now I can model, code, skin, animate and map.
You name it I can do it. It's fun. :)

Also you don't know how fun it is to play something you make.

Besides our mod is for ut2k3 not ut2k4, and we can always convert our maps to be playable in ut2k4 AS.
"There is no off position on the genius switch." - Dave

hal
6th Jul 2003, 06:07 PM
News flash... UT didn't have balanced weapons. UT2003 is a definite improvement. And to call UT2003 a "bargain bin" kind of game is ridiculous. Go check out some of the other crap that comes out and then come back and realize that UT2003 is a fabulous product that falls short of a legendary one.

And yes, they were bonus packs in that Epic released more material after the game was completed. Some of that should have been in UT2003 to begin with. I'll give you that.

PainAmplifier
6th Jul 2003, 07:58 PM
Well, the weapons aren't THAT screwd up.

I needed the modding experience. :p I learned a lot.
Now I can model, code, skin, animate and map.
You name it I can do it. It's fun. :)

Also you don't know how fun it is to play something you make.

Besides our mod is for ut2k3 not ut2k4, and we can always convert our maps to be playable in ut2k4 AS.
"There is no off position on the genius switch." - Dave

I agree that the weapons aren't *that* screwed up. (Unlike Unreal2's weapons which ARE that screwed up.) And to an extent I do think they are balanced. Balanced against each each other at least. However, compared to UT, they are horrendously weakend and just plain BORING. They feel like your playing some game of First Person Chess or Extreme Rock, Sissors, Paper. UT's weapons were deliciously lethal, and had a gritty "This is the bad end of the weapon to be looking at!" feeling that came from the knowledge that you could die *fast*. And even given all this I can't help but think that just maybe, the major problem is that while the weapons may be balanced against each other, they just aren't balanced against the game itself. (I'll be trying the (?Classic Moves?) mutator when I get a chance, so maybe that will help me detemine if UT2k3 is salvageable...

RE: The UT2k3 Assualt Mod.

I thought it was a great effort. The code was good, and the only weak spot was the maps on release had a lack of polish in the visuals. (The XL maps fixed most of the scaling problems.) But I can't help but feel that UT2k3's weapons just aren't up to making it fun.

PainAmplifier
6th Jul 2003, 08:09 PM
News flash... UT didn't have balanced weapons. UT2003 is a definite improvement. And to call UT2003 a "bargain bin" kind of game is ridiculous. Go check out some of the other crap that comes out and then come back and realize that UT2003 is a fabulous product that falls short of a legendary one.


It all comes down to a matter of opinion I guess. Because if UT2k3's 'balancing' of the weapons was an improvement, I'd like some Imbalance to fix that.

And I think UT2k3 is decent product that falls short of being a Great product. It just seems to lack the 'staying' power that UT had, and as such it does qualify as bargain bin material. (Well *every* title is a bargain bin title...it's just a matter of how long it takes for it to get there. And in the case of UT2k3/UT2k4 I feel that it's not going to be a long wait.)

Sir_Brizz
6th Jul 2003, 08:10 PM
DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THE MINIGUN!

Doc_EDo
6th Jul 2003, 08:36 PM
DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THE MINIGUN!
On the UT or UT2k3 minigun? :lol: Cuz both suck!

Radiosity
6th Jul 2003, 09:15 PM
Good Minigun = Serious Sam The Second Encounter (and the first game, but the second game's version is better). Looks sweet, stupidly high ROF and power, can cut most things down very quickly indeed, and sounds soooooo nice that I end up using the ammo cheat just so I can keep using it :lol: Give it a nice secondary fire mode and it would be perfect in UT :D

Sir_Brizz
6th Jul 2003, 09:15 PM
2k3 minigun = only in the game so that n00bs can actually kill people

99 minigun = not as bad.

BigFolks
6th Jul 2003, 10:12 PM
I sure hope you can blow up corpses in 2k4.

hal
6th Jul 2003, 10:32 PM
Oh no! A weapon balance thread! :)

It's funny... everyone bitched a fit when UT was released, complaining that the weapons were overly powerful.

Funny enough they complained that they were underpowered in Unreal (hence the hardcore mode Epic patched in).

Yeah, the mini is weak compared to UT's mini. But I would argue that the UT mini was way overpowered. UT was all about the mini and SR.

PainAmplifier
6th Jul 2003, 11:13 PM
Oh no! A weapon balance thread! :)

It's funny... everyone bitched a fit when UT was released, complaining that the weapons were overly powerful.

Funny enough they complained that they were underpowered in Unreal (hence the hardcore mode Epic patched in).

Yeah, the mini is weak compared to UT's mini. But I would argue that the UT mini was way overpowered. UT was all about the mini and SR.

I think the #1 thing they could do to improve the mini is tighten the aim or increase the #of bullets fired per shot if they aren't gonna increase the fire rate...although the tragedy of the UT2K3 mini is that the model for it looks like dog farts compared to the UT mini. (Fer' shame! The DOOM mini looks better than the UT2k3 mini!)

And I wasn't lucky enough to be online at the time of UT's release...and I didn't even get it until after the GOTY version was released. So I feel sorry for missing the initial furor over the weapon balance.

Still the only thing I ever had problems with in UT was the *really* good shock ho's. :mad: Countering a really good ho' could really suck up alot of effort....or a redeemer. :)

EvilDrWong
6th Jul 2003, 11:30 PM
I for one am stoked. I could care less what other people think is stupid or wrong or 'incomplete.' Im definately buying 2k4, with or without a discount. Epic and DE have been on the ball when it comes to 'fixing' stuff that people had gripes about, and considering what the Epic bonuspack added, i dont expect 2k4 to suck in the least. And hell, even if it does, itll just be another wave of whiners until some new overhyped game comes out and they all move on to its related forums. :)

[MUTTS] Hiteche5
7th Jul 2003, 03:12 AM
This is funny...I know we are getting off topic again. But I hear now that the mini in UT2K3 sucks? I remember that in the hands of a LPB in UT the mini was uber and people hated it! And around that time I could not mini gun anyone for beans. Now people complain about the UT2K3 mini not doing enough damage? I mow people down with it all the time.

BigFolks
7th Jul 2003, 12:18 PM
Yes please, let's get back on topic. Teh minigun aint not never gonna be part of the thumbs up thumbs down thread. Am i makin sense?

BigFolks
7th Jul 2003, 12:19 PM
I for one am stoked. I could care less what other people think is stupid or wrong or 'incomplete.' Im definately buying 2k4, with or without a discount. Epic and DE have been on the ball when it comes to 'fixing' stuff that people had gripes about, and considering what the Epic bonuspack added, i dont expect 2k4 to suck in the least. And hell, even if it does, itll just be another wave of whiners until some new overhyped game comes out and they all move on to its related forums. :)

Sounds like you got money to burn!

TWD
7th Jul 2003, 12:25 PM
And yet a large portion of this forum complain that the minigun is overpowered. It's fire spread is so wide that you hardly ever miss with it. Granted it's not a weapon you'd want to use all the time if you want to win, but it's definatly annoying.

BigFolks
7th Jul 2003, 12:27 PM
No complaints from me, I just try to avoid using it. If i can't win with the minigun, i rip a different gun out.

Makes sense.

TWD
7th Jul 2003, 12:34 PM
I don't really think you can stick any version of a minigun in there and NOT have people complain. Right now any n00b can kill you with it because of the spread. The only way to fix that would be to make it more accurate then you'd actually need skill to use it. Then that would make it even more powerfull in the hands of a skilled professional. Unless there's some sort of ballance I haven't though of I'd be happy if it was gone for good.

NeoNight
7th Jul 2003, 02:27 PM
Yeah, sorry BigFolks, you missed the heated debate time by a few months. Now we're all ready to wait and see how it looks before making judgement calls.


roger that blue leader!




besides am interested in onslaught (just hope, wish they will put some rts elements into that), as far as epic and DE goes they really do listen to the community (look at the spider mines, believe it or not I and a few others where asking for a weapon similar to that ) so thats a plus..... I just want to know where I can make suggestions for the onslaught mode.

BigFolks
7th Jul 2003, 02:45 PM
The most skill you'll ever find will be in the instigib games - Unless somebody is using an aimbot. Put your accuracy to the test in instigib. I play that most of the time. LOL! I get my butt kicked.

TWD
7th Jul 2003, 02:53 PM
Yet others would say it doesn't take much skill to point and click.

Insta does get rid of "spam" however I good player isn't good because he spams it's because he knows where to shoot can predict knows where to goes has good judgement now because he spams. With the current minigun you cannot become a good player using the mini. All you'll end up being is annoying.

Trust me the best players do not play instagib they are normal weapons ctf clans. Stick their tags in your buddy list and you'll see. Try (P*S)* and |C|* in your buddy list and you'll see real skill.

Renegade Retard
7th Jul 2003, 03:41 PM
With the current minigun you cannot become a good player using the mini. All you'll end up being is annoying

If you use the mini exclusively, then I agree that you won't be much of a player. However, a skilled player knows that the mini serves it's purpose and can be an important part of an arsenal.

I've found that the mini is most effective when used to cover a teammate, such as a flag carrier. Face it, when you're alone covering your flag carrier on the bridges of Citadel and you have three enemies barring down on you, the mini can be your best friend. You don't have time to set up a precise shot with something like the LG, but a steady stream of mini shells down the bridge is a great way to buy your teammate a few extra seconds to get the cap.

The mini is NOT a very good dog fight weapon, since you have better luck killing someone by flinging boogers at them. However, it can become quite useful if used in the right setting.

hal
7th Jul 2003, 03:45 PM
/me gets sucked into minigun debate

No skill? Point and click? Half of the guns in the game are point and click. And all of them take some degree of skill to use. Please don't generalize so much! :)

The minigun, like most of UT2003 weapons, can be deadly in the right situation. It's up to YOU to set up that situation. Thus the strategy.

All of the "this is a noob weapon", "this weapon sucks" talk really just tells me that either

1) You're taking the game way too seriously
2) You don't know how to use the map/movement/weapons to fend off attack from a single weapon.

Epic have the balance down pretty well. The minigun was simply way overpowered in UT and they rightfully toned it down (much to the annoyance of minigun h0's). Now it's a good finishing weapon or a nice medium range deterrent when you don't have the LG or SR. I wouldn't cry if they upped the damage just a hair, sometimes it DOES seem like it takes forever to mow someone down), but all in all it makes a nice complimentary weapon. Especially with the fast weapon switch.

So... PLAY BALL! ;)

Hanover_Fist
7th Jul 2003, 04:32 PM
You all know that the shield blocks 100% of the mini shots right?


edit: till the shield runs down. :D

Renegade Retard
7th Jul 2003, 04:46 PM
You all know that the shield blocks the 100% of the mini shots right?

Yup!

Now if I can just remember that I moved the shield bind to my mouse thumb button..... :D

TWD
7th Jul 2003, 04:57 PM
The shield gun doesn't block 100% of the shots. Some still get through.

DeDpoet|BuF
7th Jul 2003, 06:26 PM
i can never decide whether to use minigun primary or secondary. :/

Sir_Brizz
7th Jul 2003, 09:42 PM
You all know that the shield blocks 100% of the mini shots right?


edit: till the shield runs down. :D

Only if they are alt-firing directly at you. If you look at someone that has the shield up you can see vulnerable spots at the fringes of the shield that can be hit due to the spread of the primary fire.

/me gets sucked into minigun debate

No skill? Point and click? Half of the guns in the game are point and click. And all of them take some degree of skill to use. Please don't generalize so much! :)

The minigun, like most of UT2003 weapons, can be deadly in the right situation. It's up to YOU to set up that situation. Thus the strategy.

No the minigun is a gun that any n00b can whip out and if you get any more than 3% packet loss while you are playing there is no way to avoid the spread. I am willing to wager that on servers like ReconGamer and VALHALLA more than 50% of my deaths are from the minigun because any n00b can grab it and rely on it's spread. I'm not saying the minigun should be removed - if it was all the noobs would comlain because they can't kill anything. All I'm saying is that the gun is annoying at best and useful in the right situation as covering fire. I agree with that train of thought completely. It's the people that whip it out everytime an enemy comes by and relies completely on their ping to kill the other person. With me it works for them :p

Renegade Retard
8th Jul 2003, 08:53 AM
Brizz loves the mini, can't you tell? :p

Wait, what was the name of this thread? ;)

Draco 84
8th Jul 2003, 08:04 PM
Good Minigun = Serious Sam The Second Encounter (and the first game, but the second game's version is better). Looks sweet, stupidly high ROF and power, can cut most things down very quickly indeed, and sounds soooooo nice that I end up using the ammo cheat just so I can keep using it :lol: Give it a nice secondary fire mode and it would be perfect in UT :D


HELL YEAH BITCH!!! :tup:

SAM has the best damn minigun EVER!...




Yup.

Draco 84
8th Jul 2003, 08:06 PM
I for one am stoked. I could care less what other people think is stupid or wrong or 'incomplete.' Im definately buying 2k4, with or without a discount. Epic and DE have been on the ball when it comes to 'fixing' stuff that people had gripes about, and considering what the Epic bonuspack added, i dont expect 2k4 to suck in the least. And hell, even if it does, itll just be another wave of whiners until some new overhyped game comes out and they all move on to its related forums. :)


I'm gonna have to give this guy a "HELL YEAH BITCH" as well!


Yup.

BigFolks
9th Jul 2003, 07:49 PM
Damn this is the THUMBS UP THUMBS DOWN UT2K4 thread. We are just talking about the minigun and i'll be damned if we have stop talking about it becasue somebody didn't say it was apropriate in this particular thread. Ut2k4 is expected to be different. We are only preparing ourselves for hte next big mess up or next big fix up in ut2k4. We can talk about anything we want. Even about kicking your next door neighbor in the butt 5 times from sunday or w/e as long as he has something to do wiht ut!!

Jus a reminder