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View Full Version : Will WoT really be so great?


Cammy
13th Nov 1999, 12:25 PM
I've browsed through Book One of the Wheel of Time series (Eye of the World). My impression is that it's the usual Tolkienesque good-versus-evil medieval fantasy story retold umpteen zillion times over, ad nauseum. The screenshots weren't really that much better looking than the original Unreal, and it certainly didn't help to learn that the WoT editor is going to be much harder to use (as the people making WoT said), or that this game can burn up your video cards, or that you can't crouch in this game. And if I'm not mistaken, you can play only one character in this game -- which sucks for an RPG game, in which I expect to be able to create my own custom-made character(s) rather than being forced to play a fixed role.

Hmmm, Wizardry 8 would look like a more promising RPG game to me...

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wooly_mammoth
13th Nov 1999, 12:32 PM
I think Hexen 2 is much better than WOT. I only tried the demo but I assume the retail version is the same. It's got a nice entrance area but after that is a nasty grey. It runs slow on my voodoo 2's in sli and overheats them. Hopefully they're not danaged too bad.

Jenkins
13th Nov 1999, 12:45 PM
I don't think that WOT is going to be that great. Cammy named it, no ducking, etc... And you only can use spells, there aren't any swords, clubs, etc. It's great that they made a game out of the Unreal Engine that looks nice and all, but it doesn't seem to hit the spot. DNF will... just gotta wait that year or so for it to be released.

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Jenkins

Bishop
13th Nov 1999, 07:17 PM
I tried the WOT demo last night and was'nt entirely impressed. The textures still have that cartoony hand painted look and the frame rate is suprisingly bad for the amount of detail thats in the enviroments (Im using a voodoo 3500,pentium 233).On the up side, I liked the abandoned city for its atmosphere. They did a great job creating a spooky, unsetteling mood. All and all it seems to me that they borrowed alot of great concepts from 'THIEF' and ended up with a game that has to little to late.

Bane
13th Nov 1999, 07:37 PM
Heh, I'd not really compare Jordan to Tolkien; hopefully, I don't need to explain why /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

I concur with what Bishop's saying though - it sort of feels like Thief without weapons. I for one would have been quite greatful for some mundane weapons as well - especially while playing Whitecloak in multi-player games. The mere thought of Whitecloaks running around channeling the Source makes me shudder - I'd actually had prefered if they'd removed the Whitecloaks from the player class selection altogether.



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Bane

Jenkins
13th Nov 1999, 09:42 PM
Sheesh, I feel left out. I cannot download the demo, like anything else. What's this Thief game? My friend in school was talking about it about a week or two ago saying it was pretty tight. They have a website or anything out there? What's the game like? Oh, I doubt I will buy WOT from what everyone has been saying, especially the frame rate =)

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Jenkins
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Cammy
15th Nov 1999, 12:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Heh, I'd not really compare Jordan to Tolkien; hopefully, I don't need to explain why<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They all look alike to me: Jordan's Wheel of Time books; Tolkien's Lord of the Rings; Ursula le Guin's Earthsea trilogy; Jack Vance's Dying Earth and Lyonesse books; Moorcock's Eternal Champion books; Anne MacCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern books; and so on, and so on, and so on... It's the same kind of story, the same kind of formula, repeated I don't know how many zillion times. It gets sickening.

Frankly, I just can't understand how any writers can spend so much of their time spinning out such fat novels about airy-fairy never-never-lands that we'll never get to see, especially for all the troubles facing our world. How do you profit from reading all that stuff? Short stories -- okay, that's fine with me. But fat, long novels like these -- now I honestly think that's going a bit far. To make things worse, they try to make their stories serious, as if they've really something to say about the human condition, when everyone knows all that stuff is just make-believe. If you want to be serious, write a historical novel, or forget about fiction altogether -- write about philosophy.

Fantasy novels? No thanks, I think I'd prefer Krishnamurti.

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Bane
15th Nov 1999, 04:29 AM
Well, Cammy, fantasy is all about make-believe faerie tale worlds. /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif I don't know if one really has to take things that seriously all the time - besides, we've got several other genres that aren't exactly based on RL (e.g. science fiction, horror and so forth). Fantasy is simply one of those.


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Cammy
15th Nov 1999, 08:02 AM
I actually don't mind fantasy so long as it is indulged in with moderation. Hans Andersen's stories are lovely and not too long either, for example (and they often make a moral or philosophical point). Same with Hermann Hesse. When fantasy is pursued to the point, though, where people can spend (or waste, rather) so much of their time reading or writing such big, fat novels about nonexistent airy-fairy worlds, then I honestly think it just isn't right.

Ah, well, to each his own (or her own), I guess...

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Bane
15th Nov 1999, 02:03 PM
On the other hand, the somewhat over-simplified themes that often forms the main story of many fantasy novels seems to fascinate people. For instance, I am quite confident that the classic "good vs evil" theme present in Star Wars contributed to its success - also, it is interesting to note that the Jedi knights definitely have a fantasy element about them /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif
However, not all fantasy is based upon this formula - so-called "low fantasy" does exist, for instance Fritz Leiber's novels featuring the Grey Mouser and Fafhrd.

But as you say, to each his own /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif



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Cammy
16th Nov 1999, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>the somewhat over-simplified themes that often forms the main story of many fantasy novels seems to fascinate people.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not me. The 'good-versus-evil' theme sickens me no end. It's been used so many quadrillion times that if I come across another 'good-versus-evil' story again I think I'll puke. Just can't understand, don't people ever get sick of this kind of story? What's the appeal in this kind of story? Things simply aren't that black-and-white in real life.

Come on, there's got to be some other kind of motif that can be used to make a good story. How about, say, the quest for happiness, for instance?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>For instance, I am quite confident that the classic "good vs evil" theme present in Star Wars contributed to its success<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you think I'm no Star Wars fan?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>However, not all fantasy is based upon this formula<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure glad that's so. Most of the fantasy stories written by Hans Andersen, Oscar Wilde and Hermann Hesse aren't. That's why I love them. (Well, that's not the only reason why I love them...)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>so-called "low fantasy" does exist, for instance Fritz Leiber's novels featuring the Grey Mouser and Fafhrd.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure about the meaning of the term 'low fantasy', but if it's supposed to refer to any fantasy that doesn't employ the run-of-the-mill good-versus-evil theme, as opposed to 'high fantasy' presumably, then
I think the folks who came up with these terms must be a bunch of morons. As for Fafrd and the Gray Mouser, I don't really like them either: their stories seem to me to be just about two *******s wandering around in search of a beating.

There's one story I would consider the greatest fantasy story ever written, except it's not a fantasy story: the life of the Buddha. /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

Incidentally, are you familiar with Heretic and Hexen?

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Wendy
18th Nov 1999, 10:17 PM
Just had to jump in here, Moorcock is great.
The Eternal Champion books broke all the rules. I think it's fine that some people don't worship Moorcock like I do, but he IS the master.

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Cammy
19th Nov 1999, 08:07 AM
To be fair, some of the Eternal Champion books are nice. At least they're not too long. I particularly liked the Dorian Hawkmoon books. I didn't like the Elric books, though, especially Stormbringer; it was just too grim and too tragic for my taste.

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The-Wraith
19th Nov 1999, 04:56 PM
I got the full version, and am highly disappointed in the game.. First off weapons are a joke you get killed and when you respawn if there are 5 people with lightening magic in the room you get toasted over and over and theres nothing you can do Hell in Unreal and UT at least you have a chance to run as you respawn .. the placing of weapons is bad although its got killer graphics I think action and role playing simply do not mix well.. I played at a server today and respawned 10 times in the same spot and each time I got wasted and was not able to dodge my attacker no mater what upon respawn... WOT stands for Waste Of Time if you ask me... I took the game back and got a refund and also save another person from paying for a joke of a game and he did not buy it either.. As far as UT is concerned I will wait for the prices to drop .. $50.00 is a big joke the game is not worth that period Epics nothing but rippoff corperation .....

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Cammy
19th Nov 1999, 06:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>WOT stands for Waste Of Time if you ask me...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

Maybe they paid too much attention to single player in making the game...

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Eliwar
19th Nov 1999, 10:32 PM
I don't think that WOT was created for the multiplayer aspect, but the single player. Now, I've not bought it or DLed the demo so I don't know if your "reviews" are justified. I'll just have to wait. I am glad, though, that this attitude follows the game has come to my attention, for I was looking forward to it. I might just have to wait until it appears on the PCGamer disk. A paradox to most people is that I like the WOT series of books because of it's immense detail. I must just be strange.

The-Wraith
20th Nov 1999, 01:50 PM
Well its true, I like fantasy as much as action but this game ruined it although beautiful in design just not a winner in my book.....

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The-Wraith
20th Nov 1999, 08:58 PM
Yeah I think that would definatly descibe it /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif Oh well no ones perfect..

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[This message has been edited by The-Wraith (edited 11-20-1999).]

The-Wraith
20th Nov 1999, 09:02 PM
Hey cammie wanna dance !!!! Wraith gets down to the funkie music /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

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Cammy
22nd Nov 1999, 05:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Hey cammie wanna dance !!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure!! Come, let's meet at the strip bar at the red light district in Duke 3D!! /~unreal/ubb/html/biggrin.gif

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The-Wraith
22nd Nov 1999, 11:23 AM
Whoa slow down!!!!!! /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

The-Wraith
22nd Nov 1999, 11:27 AM
Cooolll!!!!100th post and it was at cammies post hehe shake it baby shake it /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by The-Wraith (edited 11-22-1999).]

Bane
23rd Nov 1999, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Things simply aren't that black-and-white in real life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's actually the point of "high" fantasy - it's very black-and-white, much like the good ol' medieval tales of knights and dragons. It is in many ways a simplification of reality, as well as an escape from it. It might not appeal to everyone, of course, but to me it has a certain charm.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Come on, there's got to be some other kind of motif that can be used to make a good story. How about, say, the quest for happiness, for instance?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fantasy tales tend to be epic in proportion, often featuring the end of the world themes and such. It's part of the genre, really. However, there are of course exceptions /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Sure glad that's so. Most of the fantasy stories written by Hans Andersen, Oscar Wilde and Hermann Hesse aren't. That's why I love them. (Well, that's not the only reason why I love them...)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that the "fantasy" genre refers to works such as those of Tolkien, Feist, Robert E Howard, Piers Anthony (to some extent) and the like. I would not consider HC Andersen to be a fantasy author - "fantasy", "make-believe" and "faerie tales" are not necessarily the same thing.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Not sure about the meaning of the term 'low fantasy', but if it's supposed to refer to any fantasy that doesn't employ the run-of-the-mill good-versus-evil theme, as opposed to 'high fantasy' presumably, then
I think the folks who came up with these terms must be a bunch of morons. As for Fafrd and the Gray Mouser, I don't really like them either: their stories seem to me to be just about two *******s wandering around in search of a beating.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I understand it, low fantasy is more eh "realistic", with shades of grey rather than B&W. High fantasy are often using epic, heroic themes and more often than not feature almost immortal heroes, hehe /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif As for the folks that came up with these terms, I have absolutely no idea what they were like /~unreal/ubb/html/smile.gif The terms have been around for some time by now.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Incidentally, are you familiar with Heretic and Hexen?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, but I can't I liked them that much.

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Bane


[This message has been edited by Bane (edited 11-23-1999).]

Mr Z
4th Dec 1999, 10:22 PM
I have the game and thought it was rather good. I enjoyed it so much I beat it in two days, provided, its not a very long single player game. The multiplayer is fun as well and offered different stategy than most FPS. I understand that being a different type of first person game, it will not appeal to most gamers, but I for one thought it was worth my money.