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Sparky
13th Jun 2003, 11:27 PM
Rap's just finished up making a few changes:

- Made weapon models larger to compensate for larger player models.

- Changed ragdoll time to 30 seconds.

- Given BioRifle a unique SwitchTo sound(WeaponSounds.SwitchToBioRifle).

You can download it here: http://home.iprimus.com.au/jeffearnshaw/classicmoves_104.zip

Sir_Brizz
13th Jun 2003, 11:38 PM
I like all the Unreal Championship sounds. Using this with my Species mutator and you have Unreal Championship...well if the models were changed.

FaT CaM
13th Jun 2003, 11:54 PM
UC has different models?

Sparky
13th Jun 2003, 11:55 PM
www.unrealchampionship.com

Yep, they're not as high-poly.

Sir_Brizz
13th Jun 2003, 11:56 PM
some of them look nicer, like the flak I think looks better...and I wish you could have the option on the shock because sometimes I like one or the other... :p

Daedalus
14th Jun 2003, 12:15 AM
someone should make a mod that makes the laser pointer on the shock rifle useful

DeRailer
14th Jun 2003, 01:36 AM
This is a nice mute, it definetly have that UT99 feel to it, but I don't like some of the sounds, like the new flak primary. And the minigun doesn't have a unique firing sound for alt-fire.
Epic should have made UTclassic like this.

Sparky
14th Jun 2003, 01:53 AM
Yeah, I reckon it'd be safe to go back to the normal epic alt fire for the minigun.

Daedalus
14th Jun 2003, 02:16 AM
alright, I've whipped up an easy overview of the model scaling issue:
Also, note that w/ ClassicMoves on, for some reason, the player's feet sink into the ground, may wanna fix that rap :/

EDIT: Gah, need to get used to the new image attachment dialog

Sparky
14th Jun 2003, 02:52 AM
Yeah, it's a problem... and there's nothing that can be done about it. If we were to put the collision nicely around the model, it'd cause the bots to die instaltly on spawn (only on terrain maps). :(

Hunter
14th Jun 2003, 05:10 AM
someone should make a mod that makes the laser pointer on the shock rifle useful

how? i mean there is no need for it to be usefull

SealClubber
14th Jun 2003, 10:48 AM
The shock rifle model from unreal championship looks awesome!

The Trasher
14th Jun 2003, 11:02 AM
Can Raptor add a menu to toggle certain elements (Flak Sounds, Minigun Sounds, etc, slower movement, TEH BAETA Karma rules, etc.)

Sir_Brizz
14th Jun 2003, 08:31 PM
I would be willing to code a GUI page for him if he wants.

Sparky
14th Jun 2003, 10:25 PM
I had another idea for this mutator, but it would have required a GUI hack of sorts.

Instead of selecting single bots in instant action, you could actually select which races you want to play against. That way, if you hate the robots or something you don't have to see them =).

EDIT: File's now mirrored on BU, you can download/view the complete changelog over at my site:

http://sparky.beyondunreal.com

TWD
15th Jun 2003, 12:34 AM
I really can't tell the difference with the scaling and such.

Sparky
15th Jun 2003, 12:42 AM
Load up Curse 3.

Go to the flak windows, and do a behindview 1. It's better, and it'd be nice to up it just a little more... but that can't be done without causing problems.

The eye height is most likely the easiest thing to spot.

Sir_Brizz
15th Jun 2003, 09:04 PM
Just out of curiousity how does this work over a LAN? I had it in my mutator list and the other computer didn't download it...my sounds were messed and his weren't...this would be a cool option to have in the game so you could use it even if others weren't...at least for the sounds.

WebSlinger
15th Jun 2003, 09:41 PM
brizz, did you have it in your server's INI ServerPackages?

Sir_Brizz
15th Jun 2003, 09:51 PM
No I was only wondering how that affects gamplay if at all...

Daedalus
15th Jun 2003, 10:30 PM
also, something that loads bots in when the map loads instead of loading them whenever the match begins. This way it's less of a load for lower end systems

Scuzzbuster
18th Jun 2003, 12:48 AM
I really can't tell the difference with the scaling and such.
Load up Curse 3.
Go to the flak windows, and do a behindview 1. It's better, and it'd be nice to up it just a little more... but that can't be done without causing problems.
The eye height is most likely the easiest thing to spot.

I like the mute. I much prefer the UC sounds. However, this scaling/eye heighth is IMHO the biggest Psuedo-issue that exists with the game. I would be willing to bet that relatively few if ANY players would notice a difference unless you specifically told them about it before they played the mute. Obviously some here don't see the difference even knowing about beforehand.
All this "oh it plays so much better" stuff about the scaling is the most overblown criticism of the game out there. I've put years into UT1 and have been with UT2 since the beginning. Sorry, I just don't see that much difference or the big deal with it. Put to the test, I challenge people to tell the difference playing casually. If I have to load up a specific map, go to a specific area on that map and switch to behindview to see why this is so much better, then I guess it makes no difference because I will NEVER do that while fragging.
It's all a trick of perspective much of which is caused by the scale of the maps themselves and the perspective of behindview. If you hadn't played UT1, would you be saying "Damn, this game would be soooo much better if the eye heigth of the player was 4 units higher..."?

That being said...I like all the other changes in the mute just fine. Nice work.

Sparky
18th Jun 2003, 03:13 AM
oh it plays so much better I was actually refering to the game speed... scale is there, I notice it. Most won't I do, I'd prefer it to still be larger... not much that can be done without causing clipping.

I know a few guys... hell you know a few guys who have problems with 2k3's PM scale, QAPete and Hal for one. They're too darn small, no I don't suck at aiming... they just look crap.

Sir_Brizz
18th Jun 2003, 04:27 PM
I really don't APPRECIATE the scale. I don't hate it, because that is the way it is, but UC seems alot "larger" for lack of a better word. I like running around in there playing because it is so much easier to hit people...still the skill level is probably part of the problem. The larger models were WAAAAAY too easy to hit, IMO.

Playing with this mutator is noticeable to me. I can tell I'm looking out further off the ground. The movement seems slower...is that right? I like most of the UC sounds much better than the ones Epic made, maybe that is just the way I prefer it I dunno...but they sound alot more original, not like every other gun in every other gun ever made.

Plus I like the MG sounding like it is fast instead of slower than pouring molasses....

hal
18th Jun 2003, 11:50 PM
There really is something to the scale about UT2003 that has always bugged me. To that end, I think this is an improvement.

It's not one of those things that you notice right away. It's just... odd.

Here are a few everyday things that give me a weird feeling about the way it plays:

1) At the end of the match, waaaaay off in the distance you see the teeny tiny match winning player.
2) Your perspective feels very low. Like you are short, or your surroundings are oversized... but...
3) You constantly get hung on static meshes on some of the maps, (Chrome, Curse, and December come instantly to mind) making you feel like your character is a big, clumsy, oversized oaf.

You feel short, the other players look small (your view height towers above them), but you can't turn around without bumping into some beam or rail.

From what I understand, the UT2003 models are larger than the UT models (about 1.5 times, I think). Some, but not all, of the retail maps are way too cramped for the style of play that UT2003 encourages. Somewhere along the line, the player view height got raised (probably to try to help correct a map scale problem).

The end result is that there is a scale issue. It may not bother some people, but others it does. Some people may not even know why the game feels different. (speed is a whole different issue)

To be fair, there was a mapping issue too. Static meshes got placed in places that they really shouldn't have been. Some of the mappers seemed to underscale their maps and some completely overscaled them (Face for example). Still others feel just fine.

I play UT2003 almost exclusively now and I've gotten used to the gameplay and the way it "feels" and I'm okay with it. It is different though, and it is a hurdle for some people to get over to enjoy the game a little more. Especially those fickle UT players. ;)

TossMonkey
19th Jun 2003, 08:07 AM
I haven't played UT2003 for months now and this mutator makes the game feel better. I've ran through a few of the maps with and without the mute and I prefer classic over the standard.

I can see why epic reduced the model/eye size/level, the game feels faster and theres less clipping problems and such like hal says. It seems to me that it was a quick fix rather than a very thought out decision, if the maps were fixed we wouldnt see a problem and ut2003 might have been the sequel is should have been.

ApostleX3000
19th Jun 2003, 08:27 AM
I play UT2003 almost exclusively now and I've gotten used to the gameplay and the way it "feels" and I'm okay with it. It is different though, and it is a hurdle for some people to get over to enjoy the game a little more. Especially those fickle UT players. ;)

After picking up NOLF 2 and beating it, I'm back to my UT2003 exclusive mode. I personaly never had an issue with the gameplay, and as far as I'm concerned, the quakish speed and ferocity makes it way better than UT99(which I've played 100s if not 1000s of hours of). Nothing like smacking a fast moving target with a sheet of flak and watching them go down with momentum and arms flailing, as opposed to just dropping with a static death anim.

DialAJunk
19th Jun 2003, 09:13 AM
leave it to me to actually "comment" on the news post instead of digging for a thread. Come on man, link the news comments to the REAL thread.

Anyway, here is a quote of what I said in the news comment:

Ok, i just played a couple matches with your mutator.

Man this is great! Everything you did is much better than how it is in the retail version. dodging jumping felt slightly "floaty" at first, but I quickly adjusted with a minute or two.

One thing I noticed, is that I was actually able to get headshots on Gorge by hitting him in the head now. In the retail you have to hit above his head to get a headshot. I think Epic change player sized, but left the hitboxes the same?? So now that you have increased the models' size, everything is working perfectly.

The sounds are great (much more fitting and effective), and the yellow RL is refreshing.

I have two requests:

1) The Mini secondary fire has the same exact sound as the primary fire. You should slow it down so it fits better with the slower rate of fire.

2) Can you make bodies and gibs "fade" out, instead of "pop" out? It looks a bit clunky the way it is. Also, maybe you should make them stay for about 2 seconds longer.

That is all.
Thanks to everyone involved with this mutator.
I hope Epic makes some of these changes for UT2004... (yeah right)

btw, how much do people's feet actually sink in the ground? I wasn't paying any attention. Is it really that bad? (I notice the retail does that too, for terrain, but I wonder if its even worse now. Does it do it on all surfaces with your mutator?)

Sir_Brizz
11th Dec 2005, 09:26 PM
This works in 2k4, give it a try?

JohnDoe641
12th Dec 2005, 03:34 AM
2003

Sir_Brizz
12th Dec 2005, 10:06 AM
It was made for 2003, but it works in 2004.

Nereid
12th Dec 2005, 02:13 PM
Nice bump. :-)