Network woes with roadrunner

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GoldenMouse

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This isn't UT or even LAN party related (maybe just a bit).

I took my pc to a lan last night, renewed my ip, so that it would be on the default 169.211.*.* network, and thus be on the same tcp/ip network as everyone else. Now, when I got home, plugged everything back in, and went to renew my ip to get back on roadrunner's network, it didn't. I'm still on the default "no server" tcp/ip network, despite both the hub recognizing that a physical connection exists and that the other two comps we have online are working just fine with roadrunner. I even renewed theirs a couple of times, and they worked normally. The thing is, this has always worked in the past, but for no apparent reason hasn't today. :mad: I haven't changed any settings from last time; I've power cycled the cable modem, etc. frustrating
 

SpiritWalker

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are you using a hub or router?? if it's a hub..try powering it off.. it router..go to admin and reboot..or just cycle the power on the router..


are so trying to get access to the other computers?? through the one that went to the LAN??
 

GoldenMouse

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I'm using a hub. The computers are all set up peer2peer, so none are really being used as intermediaries. The comp that went to the lan is the comp having difficulties here. The lights on the hub look normal, as in I have a light in the appropriate place, indicating that there IS a physical link. Because it cannot pick up a rr ip address (network 24) It instead defaults to THIS network: 169.254 This means that, because it cannot connect to roadrunner, it then cannot connect to any other comp on the network. (unless I were to remove the cable modem, then renew ips on all the comps) I tried power cycling everything, but I didn't bother with the hub, thinking that it is low-tech enough not to really be affected.
 

SpiritWalker

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Originally posted by GoldenMouse
I'm using a hub. The computers are all set up peer2peer, so none are really being used as intermediaries. The comp that went to the lan is the comp having difficulties here. The lights on the hub look normal, as in I have a light in the appropriate place, indicating that there IS a physical link. Because it cannot pick up a rr ip address (network 24) It instead defaults to THIS network: 169.254 This means that, because it cannot connect to roadrunner, it then cannot connect to any other comp on the network. (unless I were to remove the cable modem, then renew ips on all the comps) I tried power cycling everything, but I didn't bother with the hub, thinking that it is low-tech enough not to really be affected.

let me get this straight... you have cable modem running into hub.. and the other comps on the hub see each other and can get to the gateway..and from there the internet???
see unless you have a VERY expensive hub.. all a hub does is boradcast.. a router or switch sends requests directly to the intended target..

what it sounds like is that either you have a router.. or you are paying for multi IP addys and the comp in question is not set to the right addy.. or the comp in question is part of a different workgroup now (check the name),,

what I don't understand is .. If you have several comps on a peer2 peer network (Win 98 I assime).. then how are these computers getting to the default gateway?? do you have NetBeui installed as well as TCP/IP?.. that is the only way that I can figure that you have several comps seeing each other and still able to get outside the network..

is this right??
all comps have the same IP..and you have NetBeui installed?? and if so..can you have more than 1 comp browsing the 'net at one time?
 

Zarkazm

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Now this solution may sound really cheap, but I experienced the same problem with Windows systems of all flavours. I moved a pc from one LAN to another, and windows would assign an invalid default IP like you said.

Sometimes I could solve the problem as easily as opening my network configuration, change nothing, and click OK, whereupon I was asked to inset my Windows CD, and after a restart all was well. Sometimes I had to delete my network configuration and reinstall my drivers.
Once Win2k claimed that a network name existed twice. I solved this one by releasing the network adapters on all pc's in the network at the same time, and rebooting the affected pc before renewing the IP on any of the others.

These always solved my problem.
 

GoldenMouse

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I'll give that a try. The thing is, they are running tcp/ip, no netbeui, and we're paying for multiple ips. I would get a router, but I am uncertain both how to use one, and the legality of it (we may have signed an agreement not to use one somewhere in the contract(?); I don't know, I haven't seen any of this) Getting a router would probably end up solving a couple of problems here, if it can be done.
 

GoldenMouse

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I reinstalled the drivers, and now the only idfference is that when I try to renew my ip, it tells me that the DHCP server is unavailable. I suppose this is an improvement.... I'm going to try releasing all the ips, now.
 

SpiritWalker

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are you using 98?? it sounds like it??..
try this.. go to the machines that are not having a problem..and check the TCP/IP setting on them.. see if they are set to "Obtain IP automatically"..and then check to see if DNS is enabled.. make the problem machine match the setting on the others..

I checked RR, they say that you can use a router..but they do not support them.. meaning that if you have a problem..they won't help with a router issue..
as for multi IPs.. it's kinda crazy to pay for more then one..if you just use a router, the router takes the supplied IP and subnets it to how ever many comps are hooked up to it..
the easiest router to use (IMO) is the D-Link-704.. you can get one a Best Buy for around 49 dollars and the skill that you need to use it is low.. you just plug the cable modem into the back..plug your comps into the front, set your comps to "Obtain IP auto" reboot them,then power up the router.. the Router then reads your hooked up comps and gives them a PRIVATE IP addy..and the router handles all internet traffic as well as all intranet traffic..
if you are paying for extra IPs then you are kinda tossing money away.. even if roadrunner says that you CAN'T use a router..how are they going to know that you are using one.. unless you host a webpage or something like that..but there arre ways around that as well
 

GoldenMouse

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if that's the case, then I'm getting one as soon as I can line up the cash

I am using Win98, and the settings DO match up. It looks like I may need to call up rr to fix this one, though. ugh, I like to avoid tech support as much as possible, for several reasons.
 

GoldenMouse

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tech support can't help me, they need to transfer me to their specialists, who don't work today. /me is starting to feel pessimistic here. Out of curiousity, where did you find out about their policy regarding routers? It's not that I don't trust you, I do, but I like to have confirmation on things before I shell out money. It'll make LANs a bit more fun, though, to have everyone online as well as on a LAN.
 

SpiritWalker

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I got my RR info here.. http://www.help.rr.com/
but that is in North Carolina..I don't know if any rules apply differently where you are..

but here is the thing... A router is a "natural" firewall.. unless you open ports on your router there is NO "real" way to find out what you are doing..so if in your area they say no..then say "screw you. I am paying for a certian amount of bandwidth..and how I use it is up to me.."
one other thing to remember about routers.. they take the avalible bandwidth and subnet it.. but it can only read the one IP that is coming in..so cancel your extras..

about your problem..
are all your computers set to "obtain auto" their IPs?.. for the life of me I can't figure out how you are supposed to have that setting and only 1 cable modem and have all your comps be able to surf the net at the same time.. unless your ISP has provided you with a pool of IPs, which dosen't seem likely... is you cable modem in your house..?? can you power cycle it?? you know ..actually touch it.. I know this sounds real stupid but...
I'm just trying to figure out your set up..
 

GoldenMouse

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Here's the complete set-up; let me know if I gloss over anything you need. There are three computers. Mine is running 98, my sister's is running 98se, and my parents are running ME. They are both Dell, mine was built by myself. They all have a Netgear FA310TX NIC in them, which can run 10/100 Full-duplex, or lower depending on other hardware. They are all running TCP/IP with IPs set to be auto-configured. A couple may be running IPX/SPX for LAN play of StarCraft, I haven't checked recently as to which ones spedifically are. All three of these connect, through hard-wired ethernet, to a four-port 10mbps hub. On the fourth port we have the cable modem attached. Currently, we are paying roadrunner roughly $10 a month to have their 3 IP package. They sell a 3 package and an 8 package, no others.

Because we have so few IPs, we set up a completely seperate network for lans, as connecting them to this one would mean that thier IPs would be on the network 169.254 and mine would be on 24. When I switch between them, I release and renew my IP, to make it current with the physical network that it is on. The only thing is, this time, that didn't work. It cannot find a DHCP server, and thus defaults to the "no server" network of 169.254. The other two comps will renew without a hitch, but this one, as said before, for some odd reason, will not see rr's DHCP server. We ran ethernet cables through the walls to the locations of two of our comps (mine and the parents') and have set up all the network hardware here at the third. The cable modem itself is located roughly a foot to the right of my right foot.

The remedies that I have attempted, which have failed, are as follows: I have repeatedly tried to renew my IP at different times of the day. I have turned off all comps, unplugged the power of the cable modem for a minute, then turned on all the comps, starting with my own. I have released the IPs of all of them, then renewed, starting with my own. I have reinstalled the drivers for my NIC, and consequently the TCP/IP protocol. I have called tech support and been told that this was a job for their specialists, who do not work on sundays. I have disconsolately played solitaire variants. None of these have worked so far.

I am contemplating going into UT and shooting myself with a rocket. :rolleyes:
 

SpiritWalker

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it all sounds great.. I can't see a problem.. except for the 3 IPs and one cable modem..
just to let you know...
I have 4 comps hooked into one router and get only one IP..
you have me a bit confused as to why you would need an IP for a private LAN....espically if the LAN comps are not going to be needing an internet gateway
 

GoldenMouse

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thing is, I don't need seperate IPs for the private network. I had been operating under the (mis?)conception that I couldn't use a router. I seem to remember somethign along the lines that if detected, my connection would be shut down. Now either there was a miscommunication somewhere, or rr's policy has changed. If it is possible to use a router to split the IPs, then I'm all for it, and am going to talk my parents (who own the house, and will be left with the router and connection when I leave) into buying one, both to save them money and for added protection (my father is a norton junkie), not to mention the fact that at a LAN, I'll be able to put everyone online rather than having to dance around the issue of which network who is on for what purpose, and sometimes getting information across between the two.
 

SpiritWalker

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with a router you can set up multi connections..say a LAN only connection and a connection to the gateway..

but with a router..there is NO way for RR to know what is going on behind that router..unless you open ports so that if they used a sniffer they might be able to see an open port.. that is why if you do open a port for something like UT game serving or something like that you should a reaaly obscure port (ie 6869) that most peoples/hackers wouldn't think to/waste time looking for..

here is a quick article on opening ports for different things.. this is how I run a webserver even though Charter says that I can't..


"So your ISP has decided to block port 80, eh? No big deal. You can still serve your website without them knowing!

Here is how you do it. First, you will need to change the port that your web server runs on. I decided to use port 8080. In Microsoft's IIS, you do this by editing the default web site's properties. Right click on the default web site and select Properties. Once you have done that it will bring up another window.

Enter the port you have selected to use into the TCP Port field as shown.

Now you will need to have a host setup up configured to point to the IP address where your server resides. Do this from the Hostname Factory on the No-IP website as shown below.

This host will not work by itself because http traffic defaults to port 80, which for you is blocked, but, if you try typing http://redirect.no-ip.com:8080 into your browser, everything should work fine.

But wait there's more. We don't want to stop here, because it is a pain to tell people that your web site is "dadada colon 8080". Most people probably won't understand. So, to fix this, create a web redirect from the Web Redirection menu on the No-IP web site. Pick a host name and set it to redirect to http://redirect.no-ip.com:8080.

Now when you type in http://newredirect.zapto.org, you will be redirected to your website, without having to enter the port number!

All the above-mentioned steps will also work with the No-IP+ service where you can use your personal domain. To add a webredirect with your personal domain, you must first delete the www host from the Hostname Factory. From there you can add it as a webredirect to point at the host with the port number appended to the end.

NOTE TO LINKSYS USERS: Do not use port 8080. This port is used for remote administration of the router's configuration. Instead follow the above instructions with a different, like 12300.

Get it? Got it? Good."
 

GoldenMouse

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Talked to them today, and (un?)fortunately found out my problem and have addressed it. My card seems to have gone bad. :mad: Luckily, I had a spare, but now I am going to need to buy another. Problem solved, but another entry into the hardware graveyard.
 

SpiritWalker

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Originally posted by GoldenMouse
Talked to them today, and (un?)fortunately found out my problem and have addressed it. My card seems to have gone bad. :mad: Luckily, I had a spare, but now I am going to need to buy another. Problem solved, but another entry into the hardware graveyard.

WHOA!!!
they said that your NIC was bad?? did they see it or just figure it out over the phone?? if you get a light on the hub and another on the NIC in your puter..then you should be good..well at least NICs are cheap

BTW..is this an accurate pic of the way that your LAN is set up.. I talked with some other peoples today and no one can figure out what's up with what you were describing
 
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GoldenMouse

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You're missing the architecture....

Anyways, it began working again the moment I swapped cards. The way they arrived at that conclusion was that they ran out of alternatives. They said that either the line must be broken or my card was defunct. I tried the one cord along my connection to the hub that could possibly have been damaged at the LAN the night before, but nothing changed. Then I tried the card....

What do you mean cheap? It would cost me $20 to get a new one. I could theoretically get one for around ten, but I don't trust those to not die on me, or do screwy stuff.