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LXIXGTO
8th Feb 2002, 09:52 PM
Hello all ... thought I would share a few shots of my latest map
project. For lack of a better name the working title is Proog.
.
So far it mostly uses two of my favorite texture packs, RichRig
and SGTech. With a little from the Mine and Decayed texture packs thrown in for the lights.
.
When viewing them please keep in mind that the shots have
been modified in Photoshop to make them easier to see.
.
Any and all suggestions and recommendations on decorations, architecture, different texture usage, lighting (see above) or
anything else would be greatly appreciated. ;)
.
:D

LXIXGTO
8th Feb 2002, 09:56 PM
Screen shot # 2 ...

LXIXGTO
8th Feb 2002, 09:58 PM
Screen shot # 3 ...

LXIXGTO
8th Feb 2002, 10:00 PM
Screen shot # 4 ...

LXIXGTO
8th Feb 2002, 10:01 PM
Last screen shot ... (for now anyway)

LXIXGTO
8th Feb 2002, 10:02 PM
oops ... Last screen shot ... (for now anyway)

Freakish
9th Feb 2002, 04:25 AM
they look nice..what type of map will this be?

Hourences
9th Feb 2002, 07:46 AM
architecture is a bit simple, and light too white and overall

LXIXGTO
13th Feb 2002, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Hourences
architecture is a bit simple, and light too white and overall
.
.
You are right Hourences. The map was only about 10% done.
The architecture is very simple. Way too simple so I have
changed most of the map. Now many of the floors are at
shallow angles. And I have also added some more textures and lights etc ... learning more and more as I go ... it is never ending process and these boards have been a great help. :)

Thanx for the feedback.

:biorifle:




:cool:

Varpu
13th Feb 2002, 11:25 PM
Not every map needs to be a funky labyrinth. That map seems not be a cube either. Without playing it one can't say much about gameplay but I personally (and that is personal opinion) like simple maps.

LXIXGTO
15th Feb 2002, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by Varpu
Not every map needs to be a funky labyrinth. That map seems not be a cube either. Without playing it one can't say much about gameplay but I personally (and that is personal opinion) like simple maps.

I agree. My preference has always been maps which look
like actual places instead of areas which have no apparent
purpose other than to exist. That may be why industrial maps
are so popular. But then again, .......this is UEd. We can do
anything we want. :cool:

Here is a new shot from the exact same place as the first shot
on the top of this page.
The map (and my skills too) still has a LONG way to go but it is
getting there. ;)

Thanx for the comments and suggestions. :)

:biorifle: http://lxixgto.tripod.com/lxixgto/ :biorifle:





:cool:

Dumbcraft
15th Feb 2002, 05:19 PM
Not bad...but I'd add more light sources and with that, give the map some contrast with the lighting.

LXIXGTO
15th Feb 2002, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Dumbcraft
Not bad...but I'd add more light sources and with that, give the map some contrast with the lighting.

Appreciate the tips Dumbcraft. Am glad you approve of what I
have done so far. ... :cool:

You are right. It does need more light sources but as I said, it is
far from done. I usually try to get the architecture down before I
do any serious lighting.

As far as the contrast goes, ...
I always brighten the images with Photoshop before I post them
here because without it the images are quite dark.

Yesterday I started incorporating some textures from Fordy's
cool texture pack. They go along great with the RichRig textures.

Maybe I will post updated images as I go along ... that way you can see your recommendations in action. ;)

Thanx again for the tips everyone. :)


:biorifle: http://lxixgto.tripod.com/lxixgto/ :biorifle:





:cool:

Mazy
21st Feb 2002, 07:52 AM
lighting sux and the architecture seems kinda random~~~

[UM]theswarm
21st Feb 2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Mazy
lighting sux and the architecture seems kinda random~~~
Yeah, quite random...

Chrysaor
21st Feb 2002, 02:01 PM
I don't like the slanted floors, gives me a headache. The thing you need is trim and detail, but you aven't gotten to dat i suppose.

LXIXGTO
21st Feb 2002, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Mazy
lighting sux and the architecture seems kinda random~~~


Of course the lighting sux. At the time of the shot I hadn't even
done any lighting except some praliminary lights for building
purposes. It is getting better.
Please see the shots below and tell me what you think. :)

And could you be more specific about the random
architecture Mazy? Do you mean the angles? It's easy to make
flat floors and walls at 90 degrees. I wanted something a bit
different and thought a few angled floors would add a bit of a
different feel to the map.

:biorifle: :biorifle:

LXIXGTO
21st Feb 2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Chrysaor
I don't like the slanted floors, gives me a headache. The thing you need is trim and detail, but you aven't gotten to dat i suppose.



Sorry you don't like the angled floors Chrysaor. They give you a
headache? Maybe I should name the map Take_A_Tylenol_1st. :lol:

But seriously ... you really dislike them that much? They are
only in one area of the map.

And you are right about the trim and detail. The map is still
in very early stages. I'm sharing shots as I go
because I wanted some feedback from more experienced
mappers to help me along. :D

You have any suggestions for which TEX packs I should use
for the trim and/or details Chrysaor?

To be honest, I generally prefer my maps more on the simple
side. Too many textures spread everywhere like in
DM-Imago or DM-Alcore beta15 give ME a
headache. Don't get me wrong, both are well made
maps and I enjoy playing them. It's just that the numerous
textures spread everywhere give it too much of a "busy"
or "cluttered" look for my taste. And it can look rather
unrealistic too.


Appreciate the feedback ... :)



:biorifle: :biorifle:

LXIXGTO
21st Feb 2002, 07:18 PM
OK ... here's a couple new screen shots.

Since everyone was saying the previous shots were too bright
I have left the brightness alone in these shots. :)

LXIXGTO
21st Feb 2002, 07:23 PM
Here is another shot from the ramp just inside the
doorway you saw in the previous shot.

The blue light which is supposed to be coming from the sky
is still a bit strong. It was late and I had to stop.
(only have a couple hours a day to work on this)
But you get the general idea.

LXIXGTO
21st Feb 2002, 07:26 PM
This one is from one of the upper rooms.

The red lights on the sides pulse by the way.
(as do the red lights near the floor in the previous shot)

LXIXGTO
21st Feb 2002, 07:34 PM
And here is one inside the main room. The yellow lights coming
from wall indents which shine on the floor and ceiling are
something I was experimenting with to add some shadows.
Will probably change them to something more interesting later on.

This room looks too open and bare to me. How would you like
to see a movable beam crane across the top of the room?
Any other suggestions to fill this space?


Thanks again. :)

Trynant
28th Feb 2002, 07:09 PM
Main thing I see about this map is that it needs that trim and detail. The floors and ceiling having just one texture applied in an open area is what I think makes a map look its worst. The architecture looks pretty cool but looks like a room-corridor map to me.
Do you have the rooms on different levels/z? Having a room placed higher than another one is just a little bit more fun than one big two dimensional map.
Not to say that you dont have ramps and everything, and I cant really give a good opinion since I can't download the map.

Looks cool, like to play it when it's done.

LXIXGTO
28th Feb 2002, 07:51 PM
You might be right about the room and corridor thing.
I'm still a n00b but at least I'm having fun. :)

At this point most of the map is on the ground level.
You are right about it needing some more z axis and
details. I am working on that. And thanks for the tip on the ceiling.
That is what I meant about it being too open I guess.
That's why it's always good to get another opinion.
Maybe I'll try that beam crane I was thinking of.

As soon as the map is far enough along I'll give
a lynk for download.

Thanx for the feedback. :)

:cool:

Trynant
1st Mar 2002, 07:00 PM
What about items? Usually one of each type of weapon is enough (plus healths, stealth, amp, and shieldbelt of course), don't put get two rocket launchers at once is all im saying.

If ur making a crane (sounds cool) put the shield belt ontop. I find that shield belts are put on narrow ledges, damage amps are on places that u have to JUMP to, and redeemers are put in a place far away from where most of the fighting is but not as hard to reach as a damage amp.

How big's the map?

BTW I downloaded Biofacility it looked pretty good for a first time, even if it was a little boxy and the items were placed in strangeplaces (and toxin suits? not a good idea).

LXIXGTO
2nd Mar 2002, 04:24 PM
Right now "Proog" is going to be a death match map for
about 8 - 12 players. Some like more chaos so I will be sure
to have at least 16 player starts in there.
I am trying to balance out the item placement. They are all in
there, you just can't see them in the shots. Using the beam
crane to get the shield belt was exactly what I had in mind. :tup:
I will work on that next.
(time to fire up Lode's mover tutorial ... lol)
Everyone has their favorite weapon and power-up and will
have individual opinions about placement. But your suggestions
about general placement are good advice Trynant, thanx. :)

Originally posted by Trynant
BTW I downloaded Biofacility it looked pretty good for a first time, even if it was a little boxy and the items were placed in strangeplaces (and toxin suits? not a good idea).

Thanx for at least trying out Bio Facility. I think many
were reluctant to try it when I said it was my first complete map.
Still, ... it has been downloaded a total of 17 times but only 3
people have spoke up about it so far. :hmm:
Yeah, the item placement in Bio Facility is funny.
At the time I built it I didn't know about such things. And I didn't
feel inclined to completely revamp the map before release.
(redoing some of the lighting and bot paths was enough)
Too many others to work on.
As far as the Toxin Suit goes ...
I know now that it doesn't belong in a death match map. But that
is because you can't get the bots to use it in a proper sequence
of events. (i.e. pick up suit then enter a corrosive area)
And besides ... the toxin suits added to the single player map
feel. Which was what I was shooting for. (well, kind of ... )


.
... More updated shots of "Proog" soon to follow. :D


:biorifle: http://lxixgto/tripod.com/lxixgto :biorifle:


:cool:

faderide
2nd Mar 2002, 06:17 PM
Screenshots look nice.
I liked Dm-Bio Facility, and am looking forward to checking this one out.

Trynant
2nd Mar 2002, 09:25 PM
that's four people who spoke up about biofacility:)

what's the general geometry anyway?

LXIXGTO
5th Mar 2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Trynant
that's four people who spoke up about biofacility:)

what's the general geometry anyway?


Actually, Faderide was the first one to speak up about
Bio Facility. Thanx again ... glad you like it Faderide. :D

Please, what do you mean by: "what's the general geometry" ... ?


:biorifle: :cool: :biorifle:

LXIXGTO
5th Mar 2002, 04:12 PM
Oops, almost forgot to include some updated screen shots.

Here is an updated shot of one of the main areas:

Trynant
5th Mar 2002, 05:46 PM
sorry about saying general geometry.

I'm asking what's the layout of this map? R-C-R-C? rooms connected together? a big center with side halls (liandri)? one big flowing corridor (curse][)? or is it one of those unique layout maps like plutonic did with obsessive?

I have another bit of advice. Check out DavidM's gameplay tips on his site that's good stuff.

I also think a good thing to do is not to make the z's be in just a room, but rather make rooms be on different z's and connected by doorways to make a really fun map.

LXIXGTO
5th Mar 2002, 05:55 PM
Here is one of the upper hallways. I have been trying to add
more masked textures to the walls and floor. The main room with
the pool is just ahead to the right.


:cool::biorifle:

LXIXGTO
5th Mar 2002, 06:08 PM
The beam crane idea is coming along nicely. I have already built
the main parts but am having trouble deciding how to place them.
I want to make it so that you have to activate the crane and
ride it to get the shield belt. ... hmm:hmm:

Below is a picture:
Right now you can walk the length of the beam on top or down
the sides, until you meet the lift motor that is. ;)
(I made sure the I-beam was just tall enough to stand in)

It's getting there. ... slowly .... :cool::biorifle:

Hourences
5th Mar 2002, 06:15 PM
green light = ghey, remove it
purple light = ghey mostly

and let your architecture flow, kinda more connectivity in your geomtry, a pi llar that trandforms in a ceilingbar and then becomes a light if you look on, that kinda stuff, that everything really looks 1 part

Trynant
6th Mar 2002, 03:01 PM
greens not the ghey light but purple doesn't do well on maps (gothic being exception). Green's okay if u got sludge to show, but no disco rooms :D .

looks good but I can't really determine gameplay right now since i don't have a copy...

LXIXGTO
7th Mar 2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Trynant
sorry about saying general geometry.

I'm asking what's the layout of this map? R-C-R-C? rooms connected together? a big center with side halls (liandri)? one big flowing corridor (curse][)? or is it one of those unique layout maps like plutonic did with obsessive?

I have another bit of advice. Check out DavidM's gameplay tips on his site that's good stuff.

I also think a good thing to do is not to make the z's be in just a room, but rather make rooms be on different z's and connected by doorways to make a really fun map.


Well, ... so far the map has one main room with several small
areas and hallways extending from there. I am trying to make
the layout somewhat unique. That is why I made the angled floors.

That was a good idea about reading DavidM's tutorial pages
on layout. Though most of his points were only good for
his preferred 1 vs 1 game style, and don't take into account 10-16
fraggers running around like mad, there were some general rules
there which were good advice.

In general I have been aspiring to make the map somewhat
realistic in construction. Big Architechts are paid millions to hide
this but, humans build with cubes and right angles.
Take a look at a city skyline sometime. You'll see nothing but
cubes and right angles. Both things are generally frowned upon
in UT maps though. But let's face it. Many of the maps which flow
really well bear little resemblence to the way that structures
would actually be built.
Architechts don't have to take into account poly count or the fact
that if someone were standing on spot "X" they could be
blindsided by a rocket attack ... etc, etc ...


However, after reading DavidM's pages I realize even more
now that it is not about realism so much as it is to make the
geometry fit the game and weapons.
Really good maps incorporate both realistic structure and
good gameplay. But such maps are few and far between in my
humble opinion. Something for me to ever strive for I guess.

Thanx for the tips. With help from fellow forum posters
my UEd skills are improving. ... Somewhat anyway. ;)


:cool::biorifle:

LXIXGTO
7th Mar 2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Hourences
green light = ghey, remove it
purple light = ghey mostly

and let your architecture flow, kinda more connectivity in your geomtry, a pi llar that trandforms in a ceilingbar and then becomes a light if you look on, that kinda stuff, that everything really looks 1 part


OK ... I think I know what you mean about connective geometry
Hourences. Like the flowing iron pillars in the main room of
Lruce Bee's DM-Brunel? That gives me a few
ideas. Let's see if I can implement them without too many HOMs. :lol:

I am not sure exactly what "ghey" means but fom the
context it must be very bad.
You really think the green lights are that bad? All during the
making of this map I have been thinking of making it some
sort of cooling plant. In fact, I have been playing around with
making some Nitrogen zones which will freeze you if you
stay too long. And since these zones are green, the pipes
of that color in the floor and ceiling were part of that scheme.
But it didn't work as well as I hoped. It's hard to make the illusion
of cold.

How would you suggest I give the pipes the illusion that they
are cold Hourences?
Make them blue instead of green
with a little smoke(mist) and some sounds?


:cool::biorifle:

Chrysaor
7th Mar 2002, 06:23 PM
Sorry I've been away from this thread so long :-/

Green lighting can be 1337, but the textures have to be right, and the saturation can't be too low.

There's one pic where the wall and the floor are both tilted in the same direction, and it looks compeltely trippy.

You seem to be shifting to SG from richrig. My advice is pick one and then accentuate it heavily.

Keep it up, but watch out for high poly counts...

Edit: yellow trim is ugly, give it a trim texture instead of a base if you must keep it.

Trynant
10th Mar 2002, 03:04 PM
cold is a pale blue that's near white. add audio like wind to give a feeling of cold. Look at the ice color on the hud.

even though davidm's tutorials are meant for 1on1s I think the real thing for 10+ players is to make sure that the flow is spread out evenly enough for players to be in every area. Good idea to have shield belt in central room to make it a little risky :D

openess is the real downfall of big maps. Make sure it's enclosed enough. Playibility is a big part, polys are just a fraction of it. Avoid snags (ALWAYS AVOID SNAGS) and make sure spawnpoints are facing the right direction. Infact, that side hall you had with the ramps looks too open. Adding a column would be nice. Or boxes. But don't put a column or a box on the side, place it in the center, that usually stops snags.

ramps are good as long as you have a flat surface next to it :) .

lighting is always tricky. Red light like in Chronos is good for factories, but that theme is used too much :o . Green lights are good in maps like Deck16 and Viridian. But don't have opposite colors close to eachother. If you have a yellow light coming from lava or the such then don't have purple next to it. UT isn't a disco ball.

I like the mask textures idea. This map looks pretty good, but add bot pathing and items and spawnpoints. Make the map playable, put a download attachment on this site and get Proog playtested.
That will help your map much better than a bunch of screenshots.

Don't feel bad if nobody tells u what they think of ur map, they must be struck speachless by ur awesome mapping skills!:D :cool: :rolleyes: :mad: :p :o :(

Trynant
10th Mar 2002, 03:06 PM
u might need some custom textures for the ice... or just find what textures were used for zeto and the like.