as real soldier playing INF and 2 suggestions.

geniv · Feb 2, 2002

I stumble upon INFiltration 2.86 accidently and WOW!!! I lost A LOT of sleep because of this GODLY mod

UT is a great game but INF bring it to a different and real level.
This was my fist mod and and still favorite after trying TATICAL OPS, STRIKE FORCE, and Unreal FORTrESS .

As good as INF is, I got a few bunts that I think should be fixed if possible to make it even better and more realistic.

BTW: excuse me if this may be covered before but I'm new to the UT and INF community.

1 - Various position and manuverability

- "Dodging" in Prone and Kneeling mode (PnKm). while standing the dodging is good but while in PnKm u move very slow and can't do "dodging". while in Prone I think u should be able to "dodge" and do a quick combat roll to the left or right. same goes while u are in kneeling position but that should also include a "forward dogdging" like while u are standing up but obviously not jumping as far forward before being in prone position.

- with v2.86 while PnKm and I get shot at I"m pretty much dead unless got the enemy in weapon sight since I move so slowly while in PnKm and it takes too long to get up from Prone position to move away. In reallife soldiers would do a quick roll to a nearby cover say rock or tree while I"m in PnKm.

- Prone position make u a sitting duck. It seems to take FOREVER to get back up from being in a prone position. I can understand you have backpack and other equipment/guns on your possession but getting up from a prone position is too slow.
maybe cut the get up time by 50% is more realistic.

- Kneeling position - while in prone position pressing Jump button get u back to standing position. It would be great to be able to get back in standing position by pressing jump while you're in kneeling position also insteading of searching for the crouch key.

2 - Weapon penatration.

- certain weapon should be able to be penatrate certain types of walls, object or surface. Kinda silly when a enemy is able to hide behind a thin wooden fence and my M16 can't hit trough the fence to kill him. (I'm not too much of a tech guy, so don't know if this is a limit of the UT engine or not)

3 - (Dreaming) blowing up part of building and objects.

- throw a grenade and blow up part of building and objects.
Yeah yeah I know this one is asking to much with current engine/mapdesign and polygon issue but I can dream can't I

thanks everyone for reading my message and hope my suggestion can make it to the next INF release. and just to say thanks to the INF team for bring out such a gread MOD.

btw: what is this "RealAim" thing people are talking about?

{GD}Ghost · Feb 2, 2002

I think some of these are actually pretty good suggestions.

Also, destructable environment are at least possisble to some extent. I just played INF on a level called MatrixBank. It is modeled after the infamous pillar lobby scene. when you shoot the pillars, chunks of them actually go flying and you can see the damge done.

Anyway, welcome to the INFiltration Community.

Join other INF realists on the AFA2 server.

Talman · Feb 2, 2002

I lost A LOT of sleep because of this GODLY mod

Haha, know the feeling

Prone position make u a sitting duck. It seems to take FOREVER to get back up from being in a prone position.

This long delay was added to make sure that people couldnt switch instantly between Standing and prone for the sakes of online play (when people go prone, hit the floor and instantly seem to dissapear...or Insta-proneing. This will probably be tweaked to not seem as long, but not like it used to be though.

As for weapon penetration, all weapons do penetrate the level geometry to a certain degree, based upon the caliber of round and whethers its an AP round like the P90..
The way it works is that each different type of round will pass through x amount of geometry before stopping...

I dont know why that problem with shooting the guy thru the fence was though, the problem is that the thing with bullets penetrating solid material etc is a bit inconsistent in places i find

As for blowing up pieces of the level, it is possible, but there are only two ways of going about making that possible..

1) making specific sections of wall disguised as normal bits of the level that will explode/fall apart when shot at or grenaded

2) use an engine that allows you to be able to take chunks out of most surfaces etc...the only game which I know of which does this is Red Faction (which is more like Total Recall than INF

)

Oh, and btw welcome to the community...

-Talman

GenoOfTheCrayon · Feb 2, 2002

with v2.86 while PnKm and I get shot at I"m pretty much dead unless got the enemy in weapon sight since I move so slowly while in PnKm and it takes too long to get up from Prone position to move away. In reallife soldiers would do a quick roll to a nearby cover say rock or tree while I"m in PnKm.

Eh, wait, I thought IRL if you were shot you would most probably lay on the floor rolling and yelling medic. Feel lucky that doesn't happen. Anyways, ever heard of get up, sprint, and dive behind cover? You shouldn't be kneeling much in open areas, you should sprint across them, or at least jog. And if you can't see the enemy from even 300m away, you won't last long in INF.

EDIT: I just noticed you said prone, and my response? Don't prone unless you're behind some cover, or else you'll be a sitting duck.

NotBillMurray · Feb 2, 2002

Not bad movement suggestions, however:
The backpack puts some real movement restrictions for rolling, especially while prone. The new version appears to make the backpack optional, so it would make more realistic sense when you don't have the backpack to roll laterally.

You already have options for crouching:toggle or hold. Why not just choose hold and release to stand up?

Again, I seem to be the only person who thinks the animation for getting up while prone is perfect. I think the time is right for this as well (approx 2.5 seconds). But I appear to be alone on this. Heck, I use prone all the time. You just have to get the feel for it. What it really needs is the ability to cancel getting up and just drop back down again.

FiringAimlessly · Feb 2, 2002

He said "shot at," Geno, as of that moment he'd still have a chance to escape if he could move a little faster.

The getup time is fine for the most part, the problem lies in the fact that you can't do anything else, after a while it feels like you should see this "Getting Up From Prone..." status bar and then a popup window saying "Getting Up Complete" with a "Continue" button below it :hmm:

... also, Geniv, for now look out for trying to attack opponents as they're getting up, for a brief moment in the getup sequence the player is completely invulnerable... (I have been on the receiving end of such an attack at point blank, didn't take ANY damage until I was standing)

geniv · Feb 2, 2002

where can I get Matrix Bank anyway?

I play offline with Bots mostly since my system is too slow to combat online folkes with higherend machines.

What I mean was "When I got shot at" is when I'm in PnKm and a shot fired at me was close but missed. say I'm prone in a sniper position and someone saw me and fired a shot and I need to get out quick.

true about the backpack, it will depend on how much of a load u have and the person's physical ability.

" You already have options for crouching:toggle or hold. Why not just choose hold and release to stand up? "

me personally, my key arrangement don't have a really good reach for the key while in heat of combat, but my "jump" button is really quick and accessable. current version when youre in Kneeling mode and u press "jump" it don't do anything anyway so I figure it gets u up. I assume that won't interfere with gameplay or control.

...... must not fall asleep
...... must not goto work
...... must download more INF maps..

spm1138 · Feb 2, 2002

Ugh. Don't compare Total Recall (good) to Red Faction (... not)

1.
Yeah. Rolls would be neat. I prone a lot (more than many players seem to) and I understand the need for balancing out the instaprone thing, but it'll definitely be good when prone is less "sitting duck" mode and more useful.

edit:
Remember flashback and the way once you'd started doing something, it couldn't be stopped? Feels like that ATM.

2.
Depends on the mapper, I think.

On some levels, bullets do seem to penetrate walls.

3.
Would a grenade blow a building up?

I don't think so, myself.

Explosives, however, would be neato.

Keganator · Feb 2, 2002

Welcome to the community! If you are really an ex or current soldier, you might want to get in contact with Stormcaller (he's around here somewhere

). They are a clan made up of and for members, current or past, of any military, regardless of your personall skill, just desire to play realistically.

On that note, you might want to check out AFA Server 2. That server (plus a few more like TheWhaleShark's Mothership) run a mutator called Real Aim, or RA for short. This mutator makes the game play a little more realistic; it cuts down the strafing speed and sprinting speed to more realistic levels, and makes the overall game play more realistically.

And (of course, the forumers expected this) Check out Project Infiltration! A link is in my signature. When it's up... it's THE site for 3rd party add ons, like Jafo's bot editor for making your bot games more dynamic, and other mutators, like Khutan's RandomTeamSpawn or Othelos' Movement locator+compass. Project Infiltration: For all your 3rd party INF needs (tm).

Again, welcome!

NotBillMurray · Feb 2, 2002

Might I suggest some better key management

Maybe they'll provide some options when the backpack is not chosen, but I think the inherent lack of mobility while prone is accurate. Something has to outweigh the benefits (low profile, and extreme stability when using RA).

Puncher · Feb 3, 2002

The AFA or Armed Forces Association is an Infiltration clan made up of current and former soldiers. Our aim is to have fun playing Infiltration realistically, push for even more realistic features and educate the people how it really is. You might want to check out the following webpages:

AFA Homepage

AFA Forum

Tiffy · Feb 3, 2002

And in our role to educate people, here I go

When prone you usually don't role to the side, but do a quick shuffle/ slide thing. Its hard to describe, you sort of lift your body up on your elbows and knees and move sideways. Repeat quickly for 'rapid' movement.

The reason you don't roll much is your webbing gear. Its very bulky and makes it hard to roll and very uncomfortable.

Infact in the British Army the only time your taught to roll is away from a skyline, but I just used to shuffle sideways as its usually quicker and alot more comfortable.

I agree that getting up from prone is too slow. The speed is about right if you where just standing up from being prone, but when your in combat you tend to want to get up and into a sprint as fast as you can. You do this by basically pushing yourself up, getting one of your legs under you and off you go in a low sprint. Infact if you can't run fast enough you'll fall flat on your face.

Other than that the movement in INF is reasonable. I'd like to see a crouched sprint, and a slower walk speed. But you can't have everything.

TitanBlue · Feb 3, 2002

Originally posted by Tiffy
When prone you usually don't role to the side, but do a quick shuffle/ slide thing. Its hard to describe, you sort of lift your body up on your elbows and knees and move sideways. Repeat quickly for 'rapid' movement.

It's a little bit like the movement of the sidewinder (the snake, not the missile!

)

TitanBlue :con:

NotBillMurray · Feb 3, 2002

What if you hold down the sprint key while prone to move like that? Be a big stamina drain I would expect.

geniv · Feb 3, 2002

good point you people are bringing up here.

now the AFA seems interesting. . gotta check it out later.

anyone ever played GHOST RECON? realistic is it compared to INF?

Sidewinder · Feb 3, 2002

like tiffy, i really want to see a slower walk, and a fast crouch movement.
wouldnt be able to aim in the fast crouched movement of course.

Wolf Being · Feb 5, 2002

Why not? A fast crouch walk makes it no harder to hold a rifle to your face than a slow crouch walk does. The limiting factor is lack of weapon stability and bobbing. Also, the lack of a low ready position requires a somewhat more liberal use of the aimed position to make up for this, IMO. You can't realistically integrate a stance where you are not allowed to shoulder a weapon. In real life, if you sprint and chose to have your weapon shouldered you adapt your speed and chose your path accordingly, you aren't simply faced with the option "Should I sprint or should I keep my weapon in high ready?" Either there's an immediate threat or there isn't.

If you sprint in aimed mode it should at best be slower than if you lower the weapon. To bar certain positions in certain methods of movement is not realistic because it negates the intuitiveness with which we move. We don't issue a mission statement and priority list every time we move. We just move (read: run, walk, sprint, shuffle, sidestep, crawl, scramble, roll, etc.) and if we need to shoot while we're moving, we adapt accordingly and find the desired compromise between movement speed and accuracy.
We gain nothing in realism in INF if we try to implement every subconscious decision into a keystroke or hardcoded limitation. We need to focus on making the final experience - like, say, player movement - realistic _as a whole_, not in it's composing elements.

To me, the current weapon aiming and handling positions as well as surrounding aiming, movement and handling issues are the biggest unsolved problems in INF and the biggest realism hit currently in the game. E.g. all shooting should be from the shoulder. That's how it's taught. That's the correct way to fire a weapon and hence the only way that should be implemented in INF. Everything else is just pseudo-realism because it gives the player an option that in real life his training would deny him and he wouldn't even consider.

JaFO · Feb 5, 2002

Hey! I see someone mention me, so I guess I got to speak up too

//--
I think the problem with getting up from prone isn't the speed, but the way the camera moves & the fact that you're forced to complete the full movement before you can do anything else.

I think the best way to get the same feeling in a fps is to allow players to 'interrupt' the process of getting up at the 'kneeling'-position. That will give you the a chance to stop going prone / getting up.

I'd do it like this :
- standing
- 'press go prone'
- 'kneeling' => (if the player presses a movement key at the is moment the player starts to move in a 'crouched position' or at least stops his 'going prone'-movement)
- prone ...
(getting up from prone would be the same in 'reverse')

Two additional options :
- if you're prone & press 'jump' (or a 'sprint-key') then you should get the equivalent of a 'prone -> sprint'-movement ...

- pressing the 'crouch'-key would cause you to get up to 'kneeling' position. From this position pressing 'sprintkey' or the 'jumpkey' you'd get the same 'fast start' ...

-Snakebite- · Feb 5, 2002

The worst one is when you prone and then it stands you up again because there isnt enough space. It feels as if you might as well go make a cup of tea and see if he's done getting up when you get back

Aren't soldiers trained to go into prone when under fire IRL? In INF the best defense seems to be circle strafing...

DooMfreak · Feb 5, 2002

anyone ever played GHOST RECON? realistic is it compared to INF?

Ghost Recon is kind of neat. The realism approach is fairly simple, and in my opinion doesn't really offer alot of flexibility. The most degrading factor in Ghost Recon is the use of 'conefire' to place bullets. Basically, to simulate inaccuarcy, an invisible circle is drawn around your crosshairs. This circle expands / shrinks in effect with movement and recoil. 'E-bullets' will then flag points anywhere is this circle, so hitting things becomes a very random event.

as real soldier playing INF and 2 suggestions.

New Member

Counter Terrorist Operative

eh?

l33t 14 year old with an iron sight RC50

It's Suntory Time!

NOT going to waste another minute on CS!

New Member

Irony Is

White as Snow Moderator

It's Suntory Time!

AFA member

Back to champion the L85

KATSU AKIGATA WA NAN DESUKA

It's Suntory Time!

New Member

New Member

.

bugs are features too ...

Hero

New Member