check it out - DeathBliss hates my map

[navboy]

roflmao Gives it a 70/100 and he "hates the map" and "loaths and despises the music" it so i must have triggered *something* here ...

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~nucleus/reviews.php?action=viewrev&id=20

;)


(oh, DM-Gravadyne7, that is)

[Balton]

I saw that sometime ago but couldnt respond here...

anyway that is a funny review with an suprising score.... check out other reviews from deathbliss. he kinda needs some time to get the hang on on doing reviews... geting a routine. its like he is playing very unbalanced....

...but a nice one nav!

[MrSpoon52]

I like silus comments on the review

[Balton]

check out his latest newspost. complaining about gravadyne... :p

[ULTBase]

Heres what Deathbliss had to say in an email he sent me today ;)

I was informed of your news post by someone - got their e-mail today.
Surprisingly I didn't get one from you. Kindly inform me if you are
unhappy with something I did or if you disagree with a review - it gets
it off your chest and gives me the feedback I need. So you know I
generally try to be unbiased in my reviews and I also generally try to
not state my personal biases. You may be correct - that some consistency
is needed on my part. I told what I hated in this level but I did not
let my hate interfere with the review. Please note that I DO NOT rate
such esoteric things like what textures were used, what music was used,
etc.. I rate whether custom textures were used - and that only changes
the Bonus Points section. I rate HOW textures are used to better help
mappers fix problems. I rate whether custom music is used - but NOT how
it sounds or whether or not I think it's any good. I will try to clarify
these things somewhere on my site.


I'm sorry you disagreed with my review - or how it was written. I will
probably be editing how it was written in the near future to avoid
confusion.


- Deathbliss

[Balton]

"teh fun" as I said in irc. really he has some sort of problem...

[Nachimir]

It (Briefly) gutted me when somebody else gutted DM-Potamic. It wasn't a review, it was just their opinion... which I... reasoned... was as reasonable as anyone else's, my own included.

Anyone is entitled to hate certain things, just as I may hate maps that feature "The Ramp" and "The Light". If there is any mistake Deathbliss (If you're reading this, sorry for referring to you in the third person) made it was a lack of clarification between the review and his own opinion. An easy mistake to make, especially in something non-academic.

I thought the guy who complained about the gameplay in Potamic was right in certain respects, and that has driven me to think more along certain lines: surely a beneficial process. Reviews of DM-Sinister Cellar][ have helped me, and above all: BaSe you said the lighting on the original was downright ****e. You were right, and your being honest helped me.

This could easily turn into Deathbliss and Fragadelic defensively bitch-slapping each other up and down the forums, and noone can possibly come out of that in a good position.

[navboy]

Nod, in fact i emailed Deathbliss after posting in here and told him i'd received both feedback roughly echoing his sentiments (though not to such an extreme degree) and feedback saying exactly the opposite, including such things from one clan-calibre player as "great flow for good players, the bad ones will congregate down on the floor and not move down from top to bottom through the map". The music in particular i've heard people say they just can't stand and others saying not only do they like it but that it fits the feel of the abandoned-ship-orbiting-the-sun thing perfectly.

So anyway i could tell from his review that he couldn't really get around the map very well (almost no one can initially but it gets very easy after you know the map) and that was driving him nuts amonst other more personal aesthetic things, so i told him i opted for a definite learning curve in the map that pays dividends as you get to know the map, at the risk of certain players deciding they didn't like it and bailing early, and that i not only knew it was a risk but was warned about it in beta (which i basically was by a few people, ahem, Angel). I thanked him for taking the time to do the review (i figure participation in the UT community is good for all of us) and told i was a glutton for punishment and sent him a link to PianoHorror, grin. He said he must also be a glutton for punishment because he'd probably review it once he got caught up, lol. So all is well.

My feeling is as a mapper you listen to feedback and balance it with your "vision" of the map. I think you kind of have to pick a target audience too, because i realize now that players' likes and dislikes run the entire spectrum, so it simply isn't possible to please everybody at once. Bottom line, i'm just going to make a map that i sincerely like and have a blast playing, and trust my instincts to know when it's a good map, then whoever likes the finished product, great, whoever doesn't, whatever, there's a ton of players and a ton of maps out there ;)

[ULTBase]

The only reason for this uproar isnt that the map was nocked (I personally have never said anything bad to any other revewers, whom occasionally have really spoke out about some of the maps), it was the fact that the review was not clear at all. He said he may well alter it to make it clearer, which would be ideal.

[Nachimir]

Ah, I see that BaSe. The review is much better now there's no conflict of opinions, and it was you who mainly got that sorted out. :tup:

navboy:

...clan-calibre player as "great flow for good players, the bad ones will congregate down on the floor and not move down from top to bottom through the map".


Interesting... I think pressure is a really good map, but in instagib stupid people do hardly anything but run down the middle, while lazy people camp at either end and rack up the kills. People moan about camping at the end of the game, but it was their brawler mentality that led them to not use most of the map. I don't understand how people feel wronged after running out into the open and getting shot.... Hmm, I think I must write something on this.

The flip side would be that after I told him I wasn't hot for maps like Phobos or those of his DMs I've tried, DavidM said to me: "Learn to understand it and you'll love it".

I thought it reeked of defense mechanism, but there's also an element of truth in that certain maps appeal to certain people and playing styles. I once found it amazing to watch a demo of a 1 on 1 league match in Deck 16, in which one player thrashed the other partly by adopting an extremely original play style.

Releasing a creative project is scary, and I find it very hard to hit the balance between defensiveness and openess.

:goshen:

And hey, BU now have a goshen smiley! Muhahaha, all will be revealed.

[Balton]

our first affair?

the deathbliss fragadelic affair? pretty funny...

nach, about instagib in pressure. I jsut played a round on ngi servers and had such an camper. happens always. and than I played a guy on anotherserver who simply owned the map we played. But that was regular ut. what I found out is that jumping from differetn height lvels with a loaded rocket launcher is much fun and effective.... blabla I got to bring the trash out : /

[Nachimir]

Exactly. :)

The only reason such campers win is that they have a plentiful feed of saps who will run down their firing lines (Without so much as relying on timing or the cover provided by the pillars), rather than using the catwalks to hunt them or approaching from the side. The campers in pressure need this food supply to win; they depend on other people making the same bad decision repeatedly.

So I see it as by no means a design flaw in the map, I think it's a flaw in the mentality of players. Often, when a camper wins, all the players are reacting against is the fact that one person capitalised on the stupidity of others.

With a camper, it's your choice whether or not to run into the firing line. With a spawncamper, you have no such choice. On that basis I would define camping as legitimate strategy. It's just unfortunate that so many people try to revile it rather than concoct counter-strategy.

The jumping down thing is the kind of stuff that makes games more fun, rather than the kind of blind-panic flesh-pit pot-luck extravaganza that a lot of games become.

[Balton]

Originally posted by Nachimir
Exactly. :)

The only reason such campers win is that they have a plentiful feed of saps who will run down their firing lines (Without so much as relying on timing or the cover provided by the pillars), rather than using the catwalks to hunt them or approaching from the side. The campers in pressure need this food supply to win; they depend on other people making the same bad decision repeatedly.

So I see it as by no means a design flaw in the map, I think it's a flaw in the mentality of players. Often, when a camper wins, all the players are reacting against is the fact that one person capitalised on the stupidity of others.

With a camper, it's your choice whether or not to run into the firing line. With a spawncamper, you have no such choice. On that basis I would define camping as legitimate strategy. It's just unfortunate that so many people try to revile it rather than concoct counter-strategy.

The jumping down thing is the kind of stuff that makes games more fun, rather than the kind of blind-panic flesh-pit pot-luck extravaganza that a lot of games become.

I think we should team up as camper... you have the plan : )

[DavidM]

straight from the reviewer god deathbliss:


I know I'm smart - can't convince me otherwise - doesn't do me any good though. My reading/English comprehension level was college grade when I was in the sixth grade - just so you know who you're talking to.
But my communication with my reviews and the overall opinion I have received is that I am an above average reviewer and that my reviews are fair. My scores are less generous than some want but they haven't complained yet. All submissions have been honest and brief.

[Nachimir]

Um, not much exposition there David. Are you having a dig at everyone, someone, or noone? :)

And Balton, I'm usually on Connectfree, Boomtown, or Jolt instagib servers as Nachimir, though I've been "IrritableBowelSyndrome" for the past few days. Do you play as Balton, or under another name? I'll keep an eye on NGI.

Ah, that went badly :) Sorry Balton, I'm far too hungover today.

[Balton]

Originally posted by Nachimir
Um, not much exposition there David. Are you having a dig at everyone, someone, or noone? :)

And Balton, I'm usually on Connectfree, Boomtown, or Jolt instagib servers as Nachimir, though I've been "IrritableBowelSyndrome" for the past few days. Do you play as Balton, or under another name? I'll keep an eye on NGI.

Ah, that went badly :) Sorry Balton, I'm far too hungover today.

irratbel bowel syndrom??? ditn we play together??? DANG! LOL and alot more... btw. you team killed me once : P

[Nachimir]

Yes, we played together, but I thought it'd be funnier to keep quiet... I team killed you about three times, but only accidentally. And you ran out in front of me far more times :D :P

[navboy]

what's your preferred friendly fire percentage?

i usually play on 100% but lately i'm thinking maybe 75% might be more interesting ...

[Balton]

Originally posted by Nachimir
Yes, we played together, but I thought it'd be funnier to keep quiet... I team killed you about three times, but only accidentally. And you ran out in front of me far more times :D :P

:p ;) :p I wondered about your good english. usualy they speak italian or a horrid english... I somehow kept your name in mind... DAMN! thats funny

[Nachimir]

Originally posted by navboy
what's your preferred friendly fire percentage?

i usually play on 100% but lately i'm thinking maybe 75% might be more interesting ...

Hmm, well I only bother with insta online, so I suppose it's always at 100%... unless you mean percentage of total frags :D

------

I gave up on NGI a while back because they didn't use the blue warmachine skin, but it looks like they've fixed that now.

[navboy]

naw, i meant the server setting -- how much damage you can inflict on teammates ...

DavidM, saw this on your site quite a while back and forgot how funny i thought it was but it's ever accurate so here it is again:

http://www.planetunreal.com/teamvortex/davidm/DavidMMapmaker.png

[Nachimir]

I saw that too, and it had me ROFL. In defence though, there's probably no way someone as egotistical and proud as people make DavidM out to be would actually put that on his own site.

After I saw that, I started thinking "Hmm... wonder how much of this is simply other people's perception?"

[DavidM]

"there's probably no way someone as egotistical and proud as people make DavidM out to be would actually put that on his site. "

is it just me or is this grammar completely ****ed up?

[Nachimir]

David: For your satisfaction, I have now added a word that cleans the grammar up slightly.

[navboy]

Jewel Encrusted Battle Shorts, that kinda sounds like something out of BBS MUD ...

ya know, like Ebony-Handled Nosepicker or something ...

[Nachimir]

Not quite, but the same era I think: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy :)

[DavidM]

nachimir loves me

[Balton]

Originally posted by DavidM
nachimir loves me

that melancholic worm looks funny...

[Nachimir]

Originally posted by Balton.de


that melancholic worm looks funny...

Yeah, I don't like the look of it at all. :)

That's an old one David. And now the next traditional step is to say I'm being overly defensive and cite it as proof of your initial statement.

[DavidM]

uhmm
are you trying to make sense? 0_o

[Balton]

Originally posted by Nachimir


Yeah, I don't like the look of it at all. :)


I kinda like it. its ugly... but I like it for being so ugly... and melancholic

[Silus_of_Earth]

This could easily turn into Deathbliss and Fragadelic defensively bitch-slapping each other up and down the forums...

So why don't we do that?

Deathbliss smells of wee.

[Nachimir]

Well, at least that's illogical fun.

[ULTBase]

What can I say... firggin lololololol


BTW I guess this thread gets into te World Records for Frags longest :)

[navboy]

BTW I guess this thread gets into te World Records for Frags longest

...http://www.nwlink.com/~persiank/aerogrip.jpg

might as well milk it, then ...

[Nachimir]

Eew. That was at a higher resolution than i cared for :P

[navboy]

rofl

i had a really big detailed closeup in there, but then realized it would make this thread take waaaaay to long to load, so i put the aerosmith in ...

[Nachimir]

Gary Larson would approve, I'm sure.

[Balton]

Originally posted by Silus_of_Earth


So why don't we do that?

Deathbliss smells of wee.

"and his marmoset army"


go silus go!!!

[Balton]

Originally posted by navboy
rofl

i had a really big detailed closeup in there, but then realized it would make this thread take waaaaay to long to load, so i put the aerosmith in ...

MILK MILK MILK!

I think many maps got finished cos I was under the influence of milk (... minfluence of ilk...)

[navboy]

minfluence of ilk

is of the ilk of the Minister of Flatulence ...

[MrSpoon52]

I like Mr T "im Back and I need work"

[Nachimir]

Rehab.

[Mxtrmntr]

Originally posted by Nachimir
Rehab.

from milk?

[Balton]

Originally posted by MrSpoon52
I like Mr T "im Back and I need work"

I would tell him to get a life! :p wait.. he isnt that uber 1337 computer hacker right?

[Silus_of_Earth]

I have got a full head-coverage rubber mask of Mr T. It was really expensive, and the right social occasion to wear it has yet to arrive.


But I am patient..... and my time WILL come....





PS Deathbliss isn't a benny tied to a tree.

[navboy]

I have got a full head-coverage rubber mask of Mr T. It was really expensive, and the right social occasion to wear it has yet to arrive.

But I am patient..... and my time WILL come....


hmm, maybe you will be asked to be best man at a friend's wedding ...

[Silus_of_Earth]

Maybe....

But I'm sure my calling will be of a more worthy nature than that.

[navboy]

Maybe....

But I'm sure my calling will be of a more worthy nature than that.


Hmm, a first date with a chic you really dig?

[Silus_of_Earth]

Maybe a job interview...

[MrSpoon52]

I just wanted to get 50 posts

[navboy]

damn i hate even numbers, especially multiples of 10 ....

[Balton]

Originally posted by navboy
damn i hate even numbers, especially multiples of 10 ....

did somebody call my postcount?